Can a Passive Aggressive man love?


Having had a rant in my last post, I thought I’d offer a more constructive point of view. I’m not sharing this out of malice. It is just opinion. I hope that I can help someone else close to this kind of situation protect themselves from the pain. I suspect though that it will only reach those already experiencing this pit of agony who are, like I was, too close to the trees. I have no plans to write on any of these topics again.


I keep reading about Passive Aggression. It’s typical for an INTJ personality to obsessively find out every tiny detail about a subject they become interested in.

This truly is not a subject I would ever have chosen to explore and the more I read the more bells ring in my memory and the more horrified I get that people can actually behave this way. The behavior is covert abuse and it is brutal and dishonest.

There are so many articles on the subject and they all are very consistent, except in regard to what kind of personality ends up with this kind of person. I recall reading them in the early days after bomb drop and I understood , but I didn’t really understand. As has been said, “a healthy mind will never understand a sick mind”. I am starting to grasp exactly what that means and as such the articles are evoking more and more horror as to what I really was dancing with and to the fact that what I perceived to be a health loving relationship was actually abuse and is recognised as such.

Firstly my now ex-husband also admitted to being codependant. Another word for Codependency is Covert Narcissism and like most Narcissists they can be extremely charming. In the case of codependancy the Narcissistic supply is your attention and love which fuels their, “need to be needed”. But I digress.

The passive aggressive man also comes across as charming, caring and easy going.

Most of us may have come across passive aggressive people sometimes in our lives, without actually realizing it.
This is because the passive aggressive man has a charming and caring nature which hides their actual nature. With this charming nature, they are also able to attract women towards them. However, the actual nature of husbands will come up sometime or the other in a relationship. However, it is difficult to actually diagnose the problem because they let out their anger in a passive and subtle manner. They do it in such a tactful manner, the wife starts thinking that the problem is actually with her.
Read more at Buzzle: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/passive-aggressive-husband.html

I spent three years in therapy trying to get my IC to diagnose my personality disorder. One day, she did joke that at an extreme push I might, maybe, possibly, tend to Schizoid tendencies but that I was mostly just too hard on myself. (Schizoid is hotly debated as to whether it is even a disorder.)
She did tell me that she’d wished I’d never met this individual. It’s taken me four years and a bucket load of pain, self reflection and tears to agree.

Many well meaning people keep pointing out how I should try to view my contribution toward the break-up. It’s well meaning, but it is wrong. It only takes one person to destroy a marriage, but I sure as hell spent a lot of money on therapy, taking myself to pieces, so that I could be sure.

A Passive Aggressive Fears Conflict:

It should have been a red flag that my husband didn’t argue, but as I wasn’t aware of how dysfunctional people can be I never questioned it. When I say, didn’t argue I mean he would just shut down, completely. It is impossible have debate with someone who refuses to respond. It got to the point where we just didn’t have any arguments. In hindsight one of us would bring up something and within a sentence he would redirect the conversation or I would say no, and that was the end of the discussion. This didn’t bother me because I preferred the non confrontation. I know that very early on I realised that arguing was not his thing and changed my behavior.

I also remember, very early on in our relationship, when I was trying to bring up some or other issue with him and he was shutting down, I got so mad that I threw a mug at him. I have to point out that I almost never show or feel anger. It’s just not in my nature. In fact, as an INTJ, I base everything on what is logical and anger is unconstructive. As a result I was horrified at myself. I have subsequently read that this is the kind of response Passive Aggressive people often elicit in people close to them. It just wasn’t in my nature to repeat that incident, so at least it wasn’t a repeating scenario in our relationship. In our 15 years together I think I saw him express anger exactly once at it lasted only seconds. It appears that avoiding arguments at all costs is what Passive Aggressives do.

It would seem reasonable to assume that they are just easy going and willing to go along with the flow and that is how it appears to the person on the receiving end. That isn’t however how it is. What’s really going on is that they are slowly building up resentment and in the typical Passive Aggressive way they won’t take ownership of their part in this dynamic and so they blame you. When they’ve built up enough resentment then they explode.

I guess it helped that he knew, and actually told me when he was leaving, that he is Conflict Avoidant. I had no cooking clue and I probably would have taken a lot longer to recognise it. I continue to be completely shocked that people adopt these coping mechanisms, they are completely illogical. An INTJ is more inclined to just call a spade a spade and get on with it.

I guess the final display of avoidant behaviour was when he wouldn’t just come out and tell me he wanted a divorce. He told everyone else in the neighbourhood though, and they told me.

A Passive Aggressive Blames:

I’ve mentioned this above as one of the results of fearing conflict. They may blame, but they will never openly express that. Not until they explode anyway. Even when they explode, and you ask for specifics, they can’t or won’t actually tell you what they blame you for. I suspect this is combination of more  avoidance and the fact that the resentment build up for so long over so many things that they’ve forgotten half of them.

The result is your marriage dies without warning and you have no idea why!

They run around telling the world that is was your fault and behaving like the victim. He left amid an affair so this is also fuzzy because people in affairs blame shift to justify their behavior anyway, which escalates the pain. That is described perfectly on the “about divorce” website here

A Passive Aggressive Fears Dependency

A quote from this article entitled My Abuser – Covert Passive Aggressive: A Grown Man With a Child’s Ego

He/she will dodge responsibility for anything in the relationship while at the same time making it look as if he/she is pulling his/her own weight and is a very loving partner. The sad thing is, you can be made to believe that you are loved and adored by a person who is completely unable to form an emotional connection with anyone.

Those of us who form normal honest loving feelings don’t understand this. It sure as hell shocked me to the very core when he dropped the bomb on my life. I’m left wondering how many times he has actually done this. I know of at least two incidents, including ours, of where he dropped everything and ran from his life. I’m left wondering if there was a person involved in the prior incident, since I am well aware that he also lies by omission, and am therefore fairly sure that I was only given some of the details.

A Passive Aggressive Feigns Forgetfulness

He wasn’t as bad as some spouses with this, but it was present nevertheless. I always had the funny feeling that something was off but never managed to put my finger on it. I guess he was better at picking things that were hard for me to verify. I know that I used to ask him if he had downloaded the reports for the nightwatchmen or checked that he was arriving on time and I would be assured that he had done so, but he never did it. I always felt guilty because I always felt like I was nagging. These are common feelings for Passive Aggressive spouses.

I got the height of this tactic after bomb drop. Firstly he forgot the two exams I was writing a day after he walked out. I assumed this was forgetfulness (from someone who could remember things going back 15 years!!?). You then learn that  Passive Aggressives forget in order to punish and it becomes so obvious. So now I also know why he sent my birthday as one of the suggested dates to visit the divorce lawyer and then denied doing it. This is intentional behavior and it IS abusive.

A Passive Aggressive plays the victim

He went to IC (Individual Counseling) for just long enough for the IC to condone his exit from the marriage. This is actually quite common among people who run from relationships. I always find it sad when another spouse on the receiving end of the bomb drop gets all hopeful because they think that their spouse is actually working on themselves, only to discover that they aren’t in therapy long enough for anything useful and usually spend the time explaining how their spouse is the reason they need to leave their marriage.

He made it clear to me that I was to blame when he offered marriage counseling, so that I could, quote unquote, “understand”!!!

A Passive Aggressive becomes a pathological liar

The Passive Aggressive starts with little minor lies to avoid awkward conversations. This behaviour escalates to the point where they can look you in the eye and lie about significant things. I particularly enjoyed the day he looked me in the eye and lied about having another woman when he knew perfectly well that I already knew that the relationship was a physical affair. Even if he hadn’t already admitted the affair to mutual friends it was pretty hard to miss her Silver car parked every night where he was staying.

It started smaller though. Way smaller. You first begin to notice the lies by omission. They will tell you about events or things that happened in their day but they leave out relevant information. You find out that they, “FORGOT” to mention rather important aspects of what happened. It is only through repetition that you start to realise that maybe something smells a little.

Then he starts lying about finances. I ask him if bills were paid and he says they are. I then find out that they were not. He tells me he has paid the tax man then the tax man attaches his pension because of non payment. A loan from the bank he claims is paid. I get the call from the debt collectors. He tells me he has phoned them and it is sorted then the debt collectors arrive to attach his things.

When, 9 months after he moved out, he still hadn’t collected his possessions and after several warnings that I would throw them out if he didn’t collect them, I did. I opened his unopened post as I chucked it, just in case there was something important in there. I have never seen so many letters of final demand in my life. There must have been 30 of them. There had been no mention to me that we are having cash flow issues and he was buying things as though there was no problem, but he was also quietly running up a huge rates bill without my knowledge which I discovered when they came to switch off the water.

Of course I also got the blame for him not making it from month to month. Funny. I’m paying for what both of us used to and I’m making it from month to month alone.

This behaviour reminds me of a middle age man in a green Mercedes that used to rent our cottage. The debt collectors used to come looking for him too.

I don’t know if you just become more aware of these things as time progresses. It really felt like this behaviour was minor and got steadily worse.
He would never share his feelings with me, even if I asked. I now wonder if this too was some symptom or way to keep his distance.

This is the man I adored and loved with all my heart that I was honoring my wedding vows with and supporting through all the drama?! I can only be grateful that I didn’t give him time to get nasty with the divorce. The emotional rape that I felt, and continue to have flashbacks of, is agony enough without that also being an issue.

It’s like being married to a turd that is packaged in a nice little ornamental box covered in perfume and flowers But it is sitting in the sun gathering pressure in it’s little dark box until it explodes and takes everything with it. The covert nature of all the interactions makes figuring out what happened a lot like trying to piece together a puzzle made from exploded shit.

The memories I formed in my marriage were of the pretty little box and had he died would have been the memories I kept. Having your memories rewritten and erased has to be the most painful experience of my life and while I’m healing very well and have a fantastic life it feels like a piece of my soul was torn out in the explosion.

As an aside, I am fairly sure that I was married to an ISFJ as described here  I am greatly amused when Hipster INTJ mentions that they are the type most attracted to INTJs. She also mentions that the ISFJ will tell the INTJ that they need therapy, which he did. Maybe that’s another mystery solved. I’m disturbed that my ideal companion is a Feeling type. Argh!!! *Screams histerically* *runs away*.

“Hipster INTJ”, ha ha!  Makes me laugh every time. Fabulous joke.

How can someone that is this dishonest with themselves and others possibly love anyone? I don’t think they are capable, but it sure as hell looks like love to the real victim.

He had little or no therapy for these issues because this was obviously my fault. Runs into another life, taking the debt with him. I’m watching with interest because I suspect that when the Karma bus arrives there is going to be a spectacular collision.

116 Comments

  1. Anonymous said,

    January 3, 2013 at 3:54 am

    Thank you for this article. I was married to PA for 37 years and am now divorced. It’s amazing how alike they are. I have a friend married to a PA and he and my ex both used to wait until they could barely see out of the car windshield before turning on the wipers. Was it procrastination or the desire to get a neg. reaction of some sort?
    I didn’t know there was such a thing as PA personality disorder until 35 years of marriage had passed, and you can imagine the amount of flashbacks I have. Yes, it is baffling to the normal mind that people behave this way. I like to think of it as a mental illness.Thank you for the turd analogy. I needed a good laugh.

    • Anonymous said,

      May 6, 2013 at 7:21 pm

      Oh my! I have been trying to figure out for YEARS now (like 16) what is wrong with my husband – I always questioned if I was the crazy one. Reading this article absolutely clarified what I am dealing with. I just got goosebumps too when you said you and a friend both have husbands that wont turn on the wipers until they couldnt see. My husband too would do that – to the point that NOTHING could be seen out of the window. When I just read your comment about that it all made sense. I believe that behaviour was to make me CRAZY – yet truly it wasnt me as the crazy one. Wow. I finally feel like I have figured this all out. cant believe I wasted my life though trying to…

    • Gforce said,

      May 16, 2013 at 8:37 pm

      OMG! My potentially PA husband–well I won’t kid myself–I’ll say FOR SURE PA husband does the same thing with the wipers! That is so weird! Also, when he is driving, he knows, because I’ve made it quite clear, that I think it’s dangerous that he drives with his knee and tries to eat or unwrap things to eat while he’s driving with his family in the car– yet he still does it, often. Why the f*%^k would you put your family in danger just to get a reaction from your wife? That’s insane. I’m right there, I can unwrap his food, yet when I mention this, he acts like I’m just being an unreasonable nag!

      Christ, this crap is draining the life out of me.

      • gypsy said,

        January 29, 2014 at 6:56 pm

        my p/a also does the wind shield t6hing !!! crazy

    • mixedemotions said,

      May 29, 2013 at 11:44 am

      it must be ingrained in them not to turn on the friggin’ wipers…. mine too does the same!!!

    • dancingstar said,

      July 2, 2013 at 4:27 pm

      Oh my goodness! mine did the windscreen wiper thing too! And he always put his seat belt on as we were approaching a junction, instead of before the car started. He also ‘forgot’ to unlock the passenger doors so we had to knock to get into the car EVERY time. I’m certain that his car sickness is part of PA behaviour too. I was never allowed to drive and had to sit in the back with the kids.

      I discovered recently that premature ejaculation and erectile disfunction are also PA traits. That helped my self-esteem a lot.

      • Janet Kline said,

        August 14, 2013 at 7:51 pm

        Really?!?!?! Premature ejaculation and erectile disfunction are PA traits?!?! That just settled it for me.

      • gforce said,

        December 10, 2013 at 12:07 am

        Seriously??? I just came back to this site after another Passive Agressive husband cycle (they come and go–for months, things will seem pretty normal, and then, he gets to feeling badly about himself, and wham, watch your back.) So no SH*T? Erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation are a part of this? Check, and CHECK! Weird! Why would that be???

        In fact, our problems started years ago, when he couldn’t keep it up for a few days straight. He fell into a sullen funk and WOULDN’T REALLY TALK TO ME FOR SEVERAL DAYS. When I asked him “why” he said something like, “he was having second thoughts about the relationship because of “our” sex life.” Later, he informed me that he had never had that happen with any one else, and blamed me for having difficulty having orgasms.

        I tried to get him to go to the doctor back then, but then, as now, he won’t go. He still has this problem on the infrequent times we try to have sex, and still, he won’t go to the doctor. I’m in shock that this is a part of it.

        Wow.

    • Sharon said,

      August 17, 2013 at 5:20 am

      Gosh my ex husband used to do that with the wipers too.!!It made me feel car sick as a passenger, but he didn’t care. I have only realised he was a PA since I left 3 1/2 years ago. after a 12 year relationship .7 of those married.

      • Isa said,

        August 20, 2013 at 5:29 pm

        My husband does that with the wipers too! And he never puts his seatbelt on either! I used to beg him to, and I would sometimes yell at him, but now I don’t anymore and he is a little puzzled. What’s happening to his wife who had such a bad temper??

        I have known for some time now that he is PA (after 25 years…) and now I react in a different way. I have learned to let go. I must add that I am now 63 and I know I couldn’t have done that when I was younger. But that doesn’t mean I have learned to «shut up» in order to survive. On the contrary. When he takes my car for instance (with my permission…) he has to go by MY rules. Wipers on when necessary (I am the one who decides when it is) and he also has to buckle up. I don’t yell, I am very calm, but he knows I mean what I say. He is a grown-up child and I treat him accordingly. Okay, this is not what I had dreamed of when I married him but I have found a way to deal with the situation and I don’t feel deprived of anything. And most of all, I don’t fell guilty anymore for having a «bad temper», because I don’t.

        I know he won’t change and I don’t try to change him like I used to. I changed my behavior, and that made a huge difference. Why am I the one who has changed when HE is the one who should have? Because I am a grown up person and he is not. Because I am now a mature woman, which I wasn’t when I married him, otherwise I would never have done so. I CHOSE him because there was something in his personality that suited me at the time. Now it doesn’t anymore.

        To make a long story short, it is very hard to live with a PA but things can improve when you find out he is a PA! You then realize that you have the power to change things instead of thinking all the time «what is wrong with ME?».

        After thinking for some time about the pros and cons of my relationship with my husband I have come to the conclusion that there are more pros than cons now and I intend to stay in that relationship. Now I know how to deal with him (humor helps a lot and he finds me funny!) but he gets the message nonetheless. I set my limits and I remind him what they are when necessary. I try to show him that I love him unconditionally… and it works! He was treated very badly when he was young and he has no self-esteem.
        He gets very lovey-dovey when he feels loved. And I feel loved in return.

    • PAULA CLARK said,

      March 9, 2014 at 1:52 am

      GOD BLESS YOU…I FEEL EMPOWERED AFTER READING THIS…

  2. tthetree said,

    January 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    “Many well meaning people keep pointing out how I should try to view my contribution toward the break-up. It’s well meaning, but it is wrong.” Yes, I recognise this and have received this from close friends and family trying to take the ‘default’ fair position; that there’s usually two people making a failed relationship, and similar general concepts – in some senses I can understand this, it’s not a bad rule of thumb, but it’s also infuriating. As someone who went through ~25 years with someone who has a passive aggressive (‘avoidant’ for diagnosis purposes) personality disorder, it’s hard not to shout at people who think they’re providing objective ‘tough love’ by suggesting that you should share the responsibility for the break up. Telling the abused that they’re partly to blame for their abuse is ignorant and callous.

    • coralf said,

      January 23, 2013 at 4:55 am

      I really appreciate the comment. It can be so crazy making when an AvPD person seemed so loving. My mind still plays tricks on me some days.

  3. Dara said,

    February 19, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    I said to someone the other day that my husband never gets mad. They replied, well that sounds good. Uh, no. What I should have said was He never gets mad, He gets even. I’m now at the tail end of a 25 year marriage to a P-A. He “asked”, rather told me, of the impending divorce in November 2011. He had actually started it in September but said he didn’t serve me then because he didn’t want to ruin my birthday (in October). So instead he ruined Thanksgiving and Christmas that year. He had the audacity to show up at my sister’s, uninvited, on Christmas Day. Talk about tense. It took me a while for the word Divorce to sink in. I did some crying. I guess I realized by then that I was not going to have the happy life I had envisioned for myself all those years ago… The P-A had seen to that. There was never any “easy” conversation between us. No heart to heart, no fun banter. It was always difficult to talk to him. I thought it was me. I was convinced it was me. I couldn’t figure out what was going on. The frustration of never seeming to get through to him. I never had any good ideas. They were quickly shut down with a no. I was feeling lower that the dog. The hierarchy: Him, the kids, the dog and me, way, way at the bottom. I’ve become a shell of a person. (Fortunately not to the extreme of laying in the fetal position on my bed for days on end), but depressed and feeling worthless. I’m not proud to say that sometimes I just talked and talked, my voice getting louder by the minute as I tried to reach him. I was the one looking like a fool for even reacting. Then he could say, Who’s the crazy one, now. The kids aren’t used to this because dad is so easy going. I play Bunco with some gals. Have been for many years. On the night I was to host I waited for him to come home. This was nothing new. You host at your house once a year. Once! At that time I had a 3 year old and a baby. He came home that night and said he had to go to his sister’s so she could help him work on his resume. WHAT? Tonight? This has been on the calendar for 364 days. I’ve cleaned the house, the M&Ms are on the table. The chicken wings are in the oven. You knew about this, I said. So now I have to try and find someone to take care of the kids for a couple of hours while everyone is here. This was one of many, many disappointments throughout my life with him. I read somewhere that the P-A enjoys watching his partner spin out of control. You express the anger he cannot. Oh goody. He’s been telling you for years that you need help. You see a therapist together. You say to the therapist, Fix Me. She says why do you think that. You say because He said so. It is never their problem, they never take responsibility. You are left holding the bag, responsible for all of the problems in the marriage. It is a lonely experience. The kids see a dad that never gets mad. Ideal for them, yes. Ideal for me, no. They don’t “see” the rude comments at your expense. I guess I supposed to laugh. I didn’t think it was that funny.
    The comments have succeeded in cutting you to the quick. You sink lower into oblivion.

  4. Laila said,

    March 15, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    I also am married to a passive-aggressive. I can’t help thinking whether or not I “made” him passive-aggressive. About 2 years into our relationship, i had to deal with a major work crisis and problems with my mentally ill mother. I thought at the time that he was acting as a “fair weather friend”–when he faced problems, i was there for him. But when I did, all i heard was that I don’t deal with things well, that there is something wrong with me–for being so upset due to these problems–and that I, like my family am crazy. I wonder whether or not he felt that I pushed him away because of these problems. I may have done so without meaning to… Or is it that he just got fed up with the fact that I had to deal with these problems. Could that have made him passive aggressive? Did he feel unappreciated? did I really push him away, because I had problems and strong emotions? When he face crap, I was always there for him however. I always felt that I woul have dealt with everything a lot better had he been capable of real support and a few kind words—they disappeared very quickly. As it is, he was one more problem I had to deal with. I guess I am still thinking that if I was a better person, without problems, who could communicate in a better way, who didn’t let things get to her, who was more attractive, was more desirable etc. etc. etc. then I would have been worthy of better treatment from him—love, support, affection, closeness, interest. Would he act like this with someone else? Or was it me that brought out the passive aggressiveness?

    • coralf said,

      March 16, 2013 at 1:01 am

      Healthy adults, in my humble opinion, are capable of dealing with conflict. While most people can have passive agressive moments, someone who perpetually displays that behaviour learned it in childhood and carried it forward into adulthood.

      I found it useful chatting to a professional about those kind of thoughts. I learned a different point of view as well as getting alternative and unbiased input on my thought processes.

    • gforce said,

      December 10, 2013 at 12:13 am

      You deserve respect simply for being alive and human. Being attractive has nothing at all with deserving or not deserving respect. Being sensitive has nothing to do with deserving or not deserving respect. No actually, “deserves” respect. That implies that it must be earned by you toward your partner. Nope, you should be treated with respect by your partner because he chose to be with you and you are human being. No more, no less.

  5. Dara said,

    March 17, 2013 at 5:13 am

    I once felt as you did, that I was unworthy of love, etc. I would think there must be something wrong with me to make him treat me this way. This is exactly what the P-A is attacted to in the first place. Somewone who is unsure of themselves and questions themselves. I was forever made to look like a fool. He would put me down, belittle me and question my every move. When you react, which is what they want, then they like to say things like “I was just kidding, can’t you take a joke or you’re overreacting.” A P-A wants you to doubt yourself. They push and push you so that when you react they say, “see, she’s the crazy one” which in my case only mad me madder.. YOU express the anger they cannot. And for a lot of years, unknowinly I gave him exactly what he wanted. I did catch on, eventually, and stopped reacting. He’d try and try to push my buttons and I got good at ingnoring him. Please don’t believe that you are the one with the problem. You are not. We both married insecure men. If they weren’t so insecure they wouldn’t need to put us down in order to make themselves feel better. I found a site you might be interested in that explains passive aggressive behavior. You can find her at About.com. Her name is Cathy Meyer.

    • coralf said,

      March 18, 2013 at 4:12 pm

      You appear to be making some assumptions about me that are inaccurate. I do not feel unworthy of love and I won’t tolerate someone treating me badly because my self worth is 100%. I am very much NOT unsure of myself.

      The feelings I discuss above came temporarily in the wake of a sudden and unannounced bomb drop after 15 years together and amidst masses of romance and affection, which he labelled, “habit” when I asked him about it when he was leaving.

      I was never actively put down. That is overt aggression. The reason passive aggression is shocking is that it is covert and almost undetectable due to the fact that the aggression is hidden behind conflict avoidance.

      I do, however, agree with the insecure men part…

      I will look up Cathy Meyer. Thanks for that.

      • Dara said,

        March 19, 2013 at 12:53 am

        I’m sorry. I was actually responding to the previous writer Laila.

      • coralf said,

        March 19, 2013 at 2:03 am

        Oh dear!! My bad!!! :-*

    • Anonymous said,

      July 15, 2013 at 9:29 pm

      There may be another side to this as well. I am no psychologist, but please allow me to share….at the start of our marraige, I was the one trying to resolve issues and talk things through. But after 10 years of responses like ‘yes, but you do this or that’; after 10 years of lack of emotion and intimacy from my wife’s side, I stopped talking. Now, after another few years, it seems I’ve turned into a PA man. My fault? Me being abusive?

      • Anonymous said,

        August 3, 2013 at 12:31 am

        Hi, I understand what you meant. Yes, living with a PA for too long can make us ‘copy’ their responses or behaviour because we just don’t know what to do with their ‘shutting down’ but don’t. I almost did that but not because I don’t know but to ‘get even’. I did some reflection and evaluation and come to a final conclusion that I don’t want a marriage that is a battle field. These traits are self destructive and at the end of the day who are we going to hurt deeper; ourselves and our kids if you do have. In the areas of psychology, it may be termed as PA, etc etc but generally these traits are seeds of deception, rebellious and stubborness. If they repent, they find life but if they don’t, they died in their own evil doings. I learn to call them the right name -fools. How do we deal and mange fools? If you tell them and they refused to acknowledge, time given and they refuse to repent, there is nothing we can do but to leave them because there is no way to reason with a fool nor to have peace if you live with fools.

  6. Nikki said,

    March 21, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    I have been married to a passive aggressive also for the past 7 years, Have separated numerous times and have recently reconciled. Its the lies and lack of remorse when he has hurt my feelings then the stonewalling. For years I actually believed it was me with the problem, every issue or conflict would start with but you this and you that. No apology it was like my feelings didn’t matter and then he would punish me with the silent treatment for having any.As time went on as nothing was EVER being resolved my resentments and anger grew no wonder they are called “bitch makers” Even when the truth was obvious he would lie everything was my fault, thing is I started to believe it was hes a master spin doctor. Anyway since he has come back this time hes behavior has changed and I know he is trying there is no more silent treatment and l am also trying to change the way l react and eventually he puts hes guard down and apologies 5 gruesome hours later its almost like a real person has appeared and admits his sorry and understands we finally have closure. Im crossing my heart that we make it this time as I do love him dearly and we have children. I just find it sad they feel so alone and yet the only person they CAN trust is the people they push away the most that love them.

    • Anonymous said,

      March 20, 2014 at 4:59 pm

      Nicky, your post could have been written by me.I hope it has worked out for you.

  7. jentyjen said,

    March 29, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    shelly
    i woke up about 2 months ago .i used to think he was depressed this is how manipulative my passive aggressive husband is. he went and had a word with our doctor and told him that he thought i might be depressed so the doctor gave him a form for him to just sit on the computor table and that i might pick it up .well my husband told me about this form and manipulated me in to reading it and filling it in he then got me to make a appointment at the doctors and himself and we were both going to ask him if either one of us were depressed as we had both had a lot of serious health issues well i went first and the doctor said i was mildly depressed then i swapped places with my husband who then mentioned he had a rash then the doctor asked if there was anything else to which my husband said no .i nearly fainted as i realised what he had done so i mentioned it to the doctor but my husband just lied through his teeth .i have been married to my husband for 37 years but been with him 40 years but since we have both been medicaly retired it is 24/7 god it is hard he makes me feel ill i have since realised he is passive aggressive and have told him but guess what it is my depression it is getting worse and i need to go back to my doctors with .when i look back over the years how he has manipulated every aspect of our lives i once worked nights so that there would be a parent there in the day for the kids and he would be there of a night for them it was the only way we could both work but he made my life hell by getting me to phone every night about twice to which he would inform me that he was going to kill himself it is a wonder i never ended up in a mental home years later when i asked him about it he told me he just did not like me working nights as simple as that he manipulates the weekly shopping the cleaning were we go what we do .but enough is enough he is never to blame for anything even when it is blatantly obvious he lies through his teeth he is sarcastic when i try and talk to him he stonewalls me he walks away i get the silent treatment he tells me to shut the f***k up.i have now told him not to talk to me unless he is prepared to look at himself and change he has replied to this by saying that will not happen .and that is were we are up too to day i have worked really hard for the nice home we have as he has but i dont want to just walk and start over again .i am at my wits end with this man.sorry for the long rant but it felt good to get just a little off my chest

    • Gforce said,

      May 16, 2013 at 8:45 pm

      Are you sure this guy isn’t BDP? The threatening suicide sounds more like BDP than PA, but that’s just my opinion!

  8. Joy said,

    March 31, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Wow, this is my life on paper! I am so mad that he happened to me, 11 years of pure BS and a loveless life. I am so angry at myself for allowing this to manifest in my life! I knew it but I ignored if for fear of not having someone near me…his childhood story is congruent with this learning/behavior personality disorder my background in human services and nursing plus my caring personality and my ability to explosively express my anger made me his perfect victim. When I would call him PA he would tell me ” I do not believe in that psych BS” and that anyone involve with psychology can suck his blank. It didn’t matter I was hurting… What matter was I was hurting him, I was the problem and his victimizer. One time we were fighting again, he used to break everything of mine in the house and occasionally some of his stuff ( I also began breaking things to mimic his behavior to see how much it hurts somehow it worked a little) not proud of it :( anyway he grabbed his computer and I thought he was going to break it so it became tug of war when he forcefully yanked it out of my arms the corner of it hit him in the eye causing a terrible hematoma he moved out again to his sister’s house she called me to let me know that I need to stop the violence against her brother and that next time she was going to press charges against me. Then he came back for 3 months then he goes back the boomerang effect thanks to my vulnerability but I am hoping that this time I take care of my own mind demons since I love my new tranquility I will continue to work in my feelings and let God and time cure my broken heart.

    • coralf said,

      April 15, 2013 at 3:00 pm

      Wasband and I never fought and he was never outwardly aggressive. He was too busy seeking ego kibbles…

  9. Joy said,

    March 31, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Coralf, thank you for this, I’ve read this forum about 6 times! We have twin stories and experiences based on what you related. PA personality disorder is VERY real and destroys the heart of too many good people. If anyone want to vent and form an email support system please let me know God knows I need some good friends to understand how I feel.

    • coralf said,

      April 15, 2013 at 3:11 pm

      I’m glad that you something in my ramblings. :) It sure is way more tranquil nowadays.

      Here’s to the healing hands of time and as Chump Lady puts it, finding “Meh”.

    • starr said,

      January 29, 2014 at 1:56 am

      I just read all that everyone has said.I am living this life and its killing me.I met my husband in2008 the min. We decided to make things more serious he started to change but was told it was all in my head. Now it’s 2014 and he hasn’t touched me since 2009 using every excuse he could find. I would love to talk to someone that had lived with this. April

      • Anonymous said,

        February 7, 2014 at 7:36 pm

        I am also living this nightmare! I’ve been with my PA husband since 2001. We have four kids together, last two being two yr old twins. I am just realizing the PA now, and I am exploding with emotion. Not for the good. I would love to chat more. I have to figure out how to cope!

      • anonymous said,

        February 9, 2014 at 2:16 am

        Joy,
        I desperately need someone to talk to that has experienced this insanity. I am married to a PA man. When I met him he was nice and charming. We made a move for a job that he took, got married, and it has been horrible. I knew him 18 months before we married. We have been married almost 3 years and I have literally felt like I was going crazy. After we got married the communication stopped- unless it’s something trivial, he can manage that. His refusal to communicate and to try and resolve conflict makes me explode out of sheer frustration. He does then look at me like I’m crazy. He said that there is no reason for the words “I’m sorry” because we should watch what we say. He views communicating as arguing. And intimacy- what’s that?? He doesn’t connect with me, he doesn’t connect with anyone. He constantly doesn’t follow through on what he says he’s going to do. He knows I love flowers so he makes sure I never get them. He says that I can’t just say something and then shut up. I really don’t think that PA’s can love. My life with him has been a roller coaster. Anytime we have a disagreement he’s ready to give up on the marriage, he can’t bring himself to ask me to leave (at this time anyway). I can’t ” fix” him, I have tried though. I go to therapy for my sanity. At the beginning I took this very personally. I thoroughly researched his behavior and that’s how i came across the PA information. He’s had two ex-wives and they both cheated on him. I wouldn’t do that, but he makes me feel so lonely, so unworthy, so unloved. I did tell him he was PA and that did anger him. He wants me here, but he doesn’t- it defies logic. I know I need to exit this relationship, just haven’t decided on how. I wish he wasn’t PA. It truly saddens me that this will not get any better. One of my biggest problems is remembering how he used to be- that’s the man I feel in love with. He had a messed up childhood. I know he doesn’t want to be this way. He is a grown up who acts like a defiant teenager. If he would recognize, and get help, I would gladly stand by his side. My therapist has also said he’s PA. I can wish until I’m blue in the face….I’m in a constant state of confusion and turmoil.

  10. Carolyn Gale said,

    April 27, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Thank you, you have made me laugh so much.I am dealing with just such a turd and am also waiting for the bus :-) For now I am enjoying he is penniless, on bail, stuck with a much older mother figure because he cant be on his own…..a completely frustrated and out of control little boy.

  11. Linda Robbins said,

    May 23, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Omg….. While reading this ,.it was as if you were describing my now ex husband and the 3 year hell i went thru. had i read this or something similar three years ago, I would have seen.what he was up to and doing. Thanks for posting this….. Hopeful that it will help another victim of this type of man . My ex also used his christian.reputation to hide behind which took the abuse to a much deeper hurtful level. My issue was his need to be needed by other women as if it gave him some type of ego fix. When i asked him about this one particular opposite sex friend;.he became enraged ,.defensive and the once gentle charming man now had become a raging abusive evil man. Confrontation about this private relationship caused him to snap. And naturally the abuse i suffered was all my fault.
    Had i kept my mouth shut about the other woman and just trusted him……. he wouldnt had hurt me so he claimed. NOT MY FAULT THAT HE GOT CAUGHT !

    • coralf said,

      May 23, 2013 at 1:31 pm

      Hi Linda,
      Thanks for the comment.

      The phrase, “Needing to be needed”, is the sign of codependency. It’s another highly misunderstood personality disorder. Like passive aggression it is difficult for a healthy mind to fully comprehend WHY it’s dysfunctional because most people just see the caregiver. If that’s what you were dealing with it will ring a lot of bells for you. I’ve chatted about it a few times here but Shari Schreiber also describes it well at:-
      DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?

      Codependents can be extremely charming, but they feed off “Ego Kibbles”
      You may also find some bells googling, “karpman drama triangle”.

      Great post on ego kibbles at Chump Ladies website here, Ego Kibbles

      I have strong indications that I was dealing with Avoidant personality disorder and Codependency. Passive Aggression was just a side affect of the other two.

      Dealing with covert behavior can be horrifying.

    • coralf said,

      May 23, 2013 at 1:32 pm

      Linda, I edited the name out of your post.

  12. Rae said,

    May 23, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    First time to the site. Found out about my PA husband 30 years into the marriage, (I traveled for a living, not home much) no kids (which he uses against me like a sharp knife). He left before Christmas, provoking a fight, he retired and his behavior became bizarre. So I started doing reseach. I found he has all the classic PA behaviors. Looking back, it all makes sense. though he makes no sense.
    He got verbally, emotionally abusive the last two years. Gaslighting to the hilt! I could not take anymore, my health was failing, I was depressed and would lay in bed for two day, which he hated, cause he had no one to talk to.
    These men are mommie boys, who will not take responsibility for their actions or words. It is so sad. I am getting divorced, sign papers soon to start a new life without a PA man. Sad thing is he thinks there is nothing wrong with abuse or him. pathetic. Hang in their girls.

    • Rae said,

      July 19, 2013 at 5:24 pm

      My divorce from my PA is now final. In the six months that he was gone, not one call to say he wanted to work our marriage out or that he loved me. Nothing. Then AFTER the divorce is final, June 3 (our 30th would have been June11) on June 10 the day before our said anniversary, he leaves a anniversary card in my mailbox. Saying “I love you”, “you’re the best thing that ever happened to me, I never wanted a divorce, I dont want to say goodbye”. Where the hell was he the last 7 months??????? Mind games again?
      I dont know what drugs this guy is on, but I am out of here, done with the manipulations. Divorce is the hardest thing I have ever gone through, if it was not for my dogs, I dont think I would have made it. I am looking to the future, without his putdowns. I now have peace in my life, yes it is very lonely, but that too will go away.
      I had wish I would have known about PA when I was in my 20′s, I would have never married him.

  13. Laura said,

    May 25, 2013 at 12:42 am

    WOW, I am in a state of shock at the amount of woman (and I am sure some men) that have had to deal with this from their spouse. I have been researching PA for the past 4 months since we found out my husband is a PA and a very GOOD one at that. This is my 1st time to this site and I have never left comments or information anywhere before. However, I feel completely compelled to here and feel safe in doing so. My husband and I have been married going on 13 years in July. We had a very fast courtship introduced in December and then married in July. There were things in the beginning that (very beginning) that I questioned and unfortunately for me accepted the answer I received, therefore I believe telling him that I am a stupid idiot and that he could get away with anything with me and I believe maybe why he proposed so fast. I had a rough growing up with a hard relationship with my family. My step mother and my father and I did not get along. I actually moved out at 17 and worked and finished school. By the time I met my husband I was in my late 20′s and had my fair share of failed attempts a real relationship or love for that matter. Shortly after my engagement, I started to have issues with my family over things I was doing with MY wedding that they were NOT paying for. My father ended up calling me one day to inform me that my family would not be attending my wedding and he did not just mean them, my aunts, uncles and cousins as well and they held true to that. There were a few arguments with my husband back then, but nothing major and I was a little more on edge or maybe even the Bitch he said I was. All I know is that was a very trying time for me. It was apparently at this point in our relationship that he started to form his anger and resentment toward me. However, I had no idea he was angry or secretly doing “things” intentionally. The wedding day came and went and I could tell something was wrong and I asked and asked only to be told “nothing was wrong, but if I continued then he would get mad” I got pregnant that year in December. I thought everything was ok except for the lack of sex and intimacy we had. When I would bring it up I was told I was “using him for a piece of meat”……………Seriously those words fell from his lips. In June the following year while I am 6 months pregnant we had an argument Lord only knows about what, but he made 2 statements to me that day that have never left and still affect me to this day and they are. That I was going to be a horrible Mother (because I yell, which is what he said at that time) only later to say he said because he did not want me to talk “at” the kids like I do him…… after that comment I said if that is what he thinks there is no need to be together and that we should divorce and that is when the 2nd statement came out he said the only way I could make it, is if I shacked up with some guy……now when he met me I was not shacked up with anyone???? So not only am I going to be a “bad mother” I am also a “whore”. This is only the 1st year. I have so much and present day is so bad and I feel so helpless. After going through so much in the past 13 years and after I have foolishly believed lie after lie and promise after promise. The fact that I have a hard time believing what he is saying is truthful he told me just yesterday that I may have been stupid and stayed 13 years,but he would not. He said that I either accept and drop the past or he leaves. I am dumbfounded by his arrogance and was quite shocked to see he could stand and walk normally with the extremely large BALLS he had. He always gets me to ignite and I HATE that and I need to learn how to be quiet..how when you are so mad. I started to ask him years ago if he was trying to drive me crazy………………………..little did I know this is what I would be faced with now. I have so much to say and have almost written a book here. Thanks for letting me rant.

  14. Laura said,

    May 25, 2013 at 1:13 am

    LOVE the mommies boy comment, because I truly believe that is true. I have 2 sons and I PRAY that although I want and hope to have happy and close relationships with them as adults, I certainly hope they will put their spouse 1st and NOT repeat the actions of their father or think that “all” woman are a Bitch like their mom………………………..I am devastated at all that has happened and been lost. Today, more happened and I just do not know what to do. He says that he has loved me all along, even though he did not show it. That sentence just confuses me even more. He tells me he wants to be respected, yet does not respect me. Tells me I do not make him feel like a man (insert his fake tears here), yet insults me as a mother. I unfortunately, have fell into every trap laid and I feel after reading thread after thread on site after site about PA, was the PERFECT PUPPET for him. He goes back and forth faster than my windshield wipers in a monsoon…His mother has been rude and disrespectful to me more times than should have ever been allowed as well as his sister and his grandmother. When asked why he did not defend or stand up for me he says he did not want confrontation with them as he is a non confrontational person………… Now with that being said it has escalated to other people now coming above me and he had an emotional affair with a co worker 2 years ago that he rationalized I was just a jealous wife, until he asked her to stop texting and such (after 6 months) and she blew up he then realized OMG you were right. This was the first affair (as far as I know anyway), however, NOT the first time he has placed another woman ahead of me and when I say something I am a jealous and controlling wife. He deleted his FB account instead of having to explain activities. However the few I addressed I was told that FB must have been doing stuff to screw with him. Yes Yes Yes because I am that stupid to believe that FB actually decides who you are friends with, decides who you block etc………… He will look right in my eyes and swear he is telling the truth and how unjust of me not to believe him………..until I present black & white and then it is MY FAULT he lied because I am unapproachable and would be upset if he told me the truth. So after he deleted FB we shared a page briefly and in tha time his co-workers requested my friendship. Everything was good and they seemed very nice and we commented on one another’s post and so forth. However, just this yr we attended a funeral for a co worker of his and this was my 1st time meeting the majority of his co workers. Every WOMAN was rude and literally made me feel completely invisible and would NOT speak to me. Now that night he stated he was shocked that they would be like that as he really thought after we were friends on FB that they would be like “It is so nice to finally meet you” and he seemed truly dismayed that they acted the complete opposite. Ironically enough they quit communicating with me on FB that very day and a few actually deleted me. I was confused and asked my husband that I found it odd that they would ALL treat me that way, not just a few, but ALL the females. He then said to me I must have done something as they would not. He said I must have been giving attitude and looking them up and down and such……………….ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????? So naturally I ignited and said you were right beside me the whole time and even commented when we left how rude you thought they were. He then replies “I was not watching every move you made and I know how you treat me so I can only assume that is how you were treating them that night. I had enough, it was bad enough every other woman in his life came above me,but now some 2 bit little tramp co-workers…NO, so I left and of course fell for the ol’ I am so sorry and I am so lucky to still have you and I thank God for you, your an Angel routine……………for 2 days later he informed that he said that to me to hurt me because he was mad. However, he now does not want to deal with the consequences of not only having an affair with a co worker, but now this. So I am on edge and nervous and full of “what if’s” the entire time he is at work. I might add he is in the public service area for work and works 24 hour shifts with these co-workers. WHY on earth would you put your wife in that position to have to fear that all the time and then become angry when questioned………..I just do not know anymore.

  15. jean randolph said,

    May 25, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    IAM STILL MARRIED. IS NOT TO THE POINT OF AN AFFAIR. IAM TRYING TO DECIDE IF THERE IS ANYTHING I CAN DO OR IF I SHOULD NOT SEPERATE. OUR FAMILY SEES HIM AS THE LOVING DAD AND GRANDPA. HE IS THE ONE THEY GO TO FOR ADVICE ON MARRIAGE! I DONT WANT TO HURT THEM BY LEAVING HOM

  16. Ruby said,

    May 30, 2013 at 5:34 am

    Hi ladies, thank you for sharing your stories and I’m sorry that we – as women who obviously have large hearts flowing with grace, love and forgiveness – have been abused and caught in the crazy cycle. Because of our optimism and hope, we have spent many years investing sooooooo much effort into a lost cause. A number of experiences and feelings resonate with my own…I have said in the past that “I feel emotionally raped”. Being married to my husband and ‘his family’ is psychological warfare’. It’s just amazing how similar the experiences are. Despite a number of hardships in life, being married to my husband for the last four years has been the most crushing. I have a tenacious personality. Despite losing both of my parents when I was young – including caring for my mum after a severe stroke in my early 20s – and having no other family support, I bought my own house, earned several uni degrees and worked professionally when I met my husband. He saw an independent girl who longed for family, love and acceptance….was sensitive and emotional. I was more extroverted than him and I express my heart – I wear it on my sleeve. I attended church as a commited Christian. First red flags…..he had NO friends, he lied about details of his divorce and timing of separation (we started dating while he was still freaking legally married I found out later), he did not express how he felt about me after two months of dating….I had to ask him, he bore no responsbility for his last failed marriage (his cheating wife “was selfish and a whore”), he dismissed my opinions and needs, made jokes about me in front of MY friends that humiliated me and said I was too sensitive when I said it hurt me, he proposed after 8 months of dating…..the proposal I will always cherish closely…”do you love me, do you love me, do you love me (yes, yes, yes, I answered)….will you marry me?”….??!!! He commonly….lies by ommission and outright lies, dismisses 95 percent of my needs and feelings, makes excuses for not showing any sexual interest in me (he’s tired, we fight too much, we have kids, he’s overweight…..different week, diff excuse), attempts to define and control my reality – denies saying things, distorts facts, shifts blame etc, says I imagine things and labels me – denigrating my character – (critical, judgmental, crazy, pyscho, too senstive, nasty bitch, selfish, entitled [when I ask for romance or help with cleaning during 3rd trimester pregnancy], stonewalls, brushes issues aside, packs and leaves for days at a time with no evidence of whereabouts or communicating intent to come home through both of my pregnancies, globalises facts (you always statements that he can’t back up with specific facts), brings up the past to deflect my feelings but blames me if I ever do that to inform a point. After two years of marriage, he has become extremely hostile and verbally abusive. I am accused of having a toxic, nasty tone or attitude so have practised being extremely calm, loving and rationale which only seems to make him angrier. He DEMANDS respect, but denies my requests for love and respect. He DEMANDS trust, after leaving and sleeping in his “car or an hotel” I would estimate over three hundred times over the past four years without any evidence or communication. Despite my requests and counselling advice, he still won’t say, “I feel (insert emotion) because of (event). I need a time out and will be back in 30 minutes or an hour. I am going to (place).”

    With little children at home and through pregnancies and c-section recovery, I have lost all dignity and security begging him to come home.

    He is extremely sensitive to any perceived criticism, and will construct alternate realities of what I said, almost convincing me that I did call him lazy when I ask for his help with dishes after I cook dinner.

    If I ask for A, he demands B. If I deliver B, he makes excuses for not doing A, citing how I didn’t do C or that I’m just too demanding……it goes on and on……..the goal posts never stop moving and I never reach them. Consequently, my deep relational needs for communication, quality time, sex, intimacy are never net.

    I pray we all have the strength and courage to forgive, heal and channel our unconditional love and effort into those who preserve and cherish it and nurture the best in us.

  17. Ruby said,

    May 30, 2013 at 6:08 am

    Just adding….other typical behaviours….gaslighting and blaming my emotional reactions as a reason for him to leave or deflect the issue off himself, making and breaking promises regularly, taking no responsibility for significant financial or parenting decisions while he invests hours of time on his personal interests, uses work, study, watching TV, playing games etc as excuses to not communicate, doesn’t share any details of his worklife or colleagues, doesn’t share his feelings. He will NOT use “I feel” statements. He obstructs all communication related to feelings, needs, responsibility or expections by looking bored, tired, hungry, talking over me, getting angry, leaving…..etc etc etc . Double standards and conflicting messages. He has no problem saying, “i love you” but the actions and lack thereof speak louder.

  18. joanne said,

    May 30, 2013 at 10:51 am

    When I didn’t know he was PA, I was always trying to ‘help’ him see the picture, working out the differences. Sometimes, I got so bad that I said that we should divorce. Imagine, I was his virgin bride for 4yrs and probably just to ‘proof’ he is a man, he finally consumated the marriage and we have a son. He said he wont divorce me because he won’t want to make me an adulterer. How ‘kind’ of him right? Because of the child, I thought he would ‘grow up’ but as the marriage age, he turned worse. Since I conceived, he never touch me again and I became a ‘widow’ for 14yrs. About 4yrs ago, what is a PA changes my life. Finally when he knew I came to understood what’s the traits of a PA man and he no longer can manipulate my emotions, he proposed divorce but said that he will not do the legal proceedings. He accepted divorce if I want to divorce him. The complication part in marriage was not only we are in matrimony , we are also business partners. Though he did the field work, I manage the overall admin , I also take care of the household without any helper plus home schooling. I did freelance work as our business earnings was not enough to pay our monthly expenses and our savings were draining. After he agreed that he will sign the papers if I proceeds, his crazy behaviours worsened. After another 3yrs , I finally throw in the towel because he used our son to provoke me. Added to that he would tell his son that he pray I die when I applied a personal protection order due to his words which I could sense the resentment and anger of 18yrs. I have to think about our son’s mental and emotional growth so I decided the split is needed as the living together is toxic to a growing teen. I gave up my I.T career and biz and trained him the trade and pass my biz over to him. He is now claiming everything his including our matrimonial flat. He insisted in selling because on papers, the money went to his central provision fund to pay off our loan mortgage so in the event that the flat is sold, this money must be returned to this fund (managed by the government). A PA husband wants the love feeling but refuses commitment and responsibiities. He wanted to be called father so that someone could take care of him in his old age and he feels the company. They only need that ‘feeling’ , the sense of a family , the outward appearance of a loving family to others. In short, they are just hippocrites. Their love is never sincere. They live in their own world. I thought he love his son but to my horror, the divorce proceeds reveal his entire true self. He wanted joint custody but not the care and control giving the lame excuse that in a divorce, the kids always go with the mother. He knew I have ‘drop’ my carreer for 14yrs and at age 50 now, there is no way I can be employed under I.T and sarcastically mentioned in the Affidavit that I was an engineer and would easily fetch $5K. He agreed to the divorce but contest the flat and drags the proceeds till today. 11/2yrs. The last Affidavit , he revoked his expenses statement saying it was wrong because those bank accounts and expenses were unknown to me and the expenses were not ours. In his resubmission, he again gave the same accounts only with a month expenses minus property purchases and children’s expenses. If this is his lawyer’s mistakes of attaching another’s family expenses as his , what is going to happened in court hearing? any one knows? I know lawyer will never admit such mistakes as he the defendant needs to check before signing and twice he signed. Is either he really commit adultery or the lawyer’s mistakes of attaching wrong document again. My husband keep lamenting the flat needed to be sold because he needed the money to buy another house for himself because he has no alternative accomodation and mine you,he is earning $4.5k. He had also won the heart of his lawyer and play victim. They are superstar liers. Our marriage is a deceptive marriage. After 19yrs, I need to live sanely. The life is really an emotional roller coaster. I needed to live on to take care of my 14yrs old boy. They will take your love and forgiving for granted . He is an emotional parasite and will suck your life dry and cry innocent. Yes, they will continue to live in denial to survive on so we have to learn to let go the pain they caused in our lives. Initially, it may take both of our personalities in the marriage breakdown but when we realised they are PA and willing to work out the marriage with them by therapy,etc. and they refused, it is no longer us , it is the PA in the first place has a different agenda of marriage. Love is interdependent.

  19. Jen said,

    June 5, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    I can’t believe it! There is actually someone else who feels the way I do. I too went to a therapist convinced I was crazy! What I found out is that living with such crazy making behavior for so long resulted in my having PTSD. How did my PA hubby deal with the news his wife was suffering from an anxiety disorder? He ran out and had an affair with a stripper, then of course blamed it on me.
    Shit he’s said that makes my head spin
    - I need you to need me. Then 2 days later will say I’m too needy.
    - He says “I’d like you go out and find something to do, you seem unhappy. When I explain I need someone to care for the kids, he says, get a babysitter, I’m busy.
    -Whenever I confronted him about my feelings, it was always my feeling that were the problem, never his behavior. Everything was perfect in his world, yet it was his dissatisfaction in the marriage that caused him to cheat.
    - don’t even get me started on lies of omission! ( http://www.healingafteraffairs-bloomington.info/infidelity/trauma-of-infidelity.html )
    These men ( I use that term loosely) have no idea what the hell they want, so instead of being an adult and making a choice, they decide they want it all, and it’s their wife’s job to give it to them. When our lack of mind reading fails to produce the outcome they want, it’s somehow our fault. I decided I’ll never understand crazy!

    • coralf said,

      June 5, 2013 at 8:12 pm

      Thanks for the link. I’m long enough into this process to have understood all of that, but reading such a concise description of it sure triggered an extreme emotional reaction. I had to take several breaks to finish reading it.

      I particularly agree with mourning the loss of who you were. Your entire worldview changes and this is clearly a one way trip….

      :’(

    • On my way to happiness said,

      June 9, 2013 at 8:31 pm

      I totaly relate to you. My soon to be ex-husband went a step further being passive aggressive, he assaulted me by choking me late at night when I confronted him about possible affair (I was suspecting but never had concrete proof except odd restaurant charges that he claimed was VISA fraud). After the assault I had PTSD and he did not even support me, he just pulled away even more after seing me suffer. His response to his assault was – going out and engaging in affair with anotehr female. This time I caught on very quickly, basically 1 month after he started having an affair with some woman full of tattoos from head to toe that he met in nighclub along with his cheating co-workers. He moved out 2 months after affair by saying he has no feelings for me, etc. but then he would call me and state the opposite. He was full of conflicting messages. He was always blaming me for everything, nothing was ever his fault. Then when I filed for divorce, he tried to come back but I was doubting his genuine love, it seemed that he wanted to come back only for his selfish interests and not wanting to lose house, dog, etc.
      He accused me of not being supportive after he became a cop, taht I didn`t compliment him enough and didn`t rub his ego, he said I turned into a mother instead of a wife (because I didn`t support his reckless actions that he started doing after starting this career), he said he didn`t feel loved and needed, etc. All bunch of BS. I can`t even count how many times I have approched him to spend time together, to watch a movie or cuddle on the couch or go for a walk or make love or try new things in bed, etc. I complimented him but due to his internal insecurities he never believed me and dismissed my compliments. I have tried to talk to him millions of times, offered counselling, etc. but he didn`t even budge. He even had an excuse for the affair by saying I wasn`t there the way he needed me. interesting because he never ever once said how I could be there for him and what he wanted , it was always me trying to make relationship better and approaching him and asking what he wanted, etc but he would always say that everything is fine and he is happy and that he is just a simple guy. When I started university, that`s when he hit the peak of PA because he internally didn`t want me to advance because he was scared I will dump his sorry ass like I have tried to do many times before (but each time he would cry and beg for me not to leave or come back), so because I was busy at school 2 x a week, he used me being away and started cheating (that was the 1-st time when i didn`t have proof for it but by confronting him he got angry and assaulted me).
      When I couldn`t take any longer, I started threatening with divorce and that was the time when he cheated with that woman from the nightclub. Instead of commiting to us and solving problems by going to counselling, he started an affair.
      His childhood is to blame because his parents got divorced when he was 6 and his mom abandoned him when he was 16. So he is full of traumas and makes everyone else suffer. Even at work, everyone else is to blame but not him. They call him “a man of excuses”. Apparently I`m not the only one to notice that.
      We have been together for 12 yrs and will be officially divorced soon.
      But the damage he caused is beyond words. I started feeling unattractive, ugly, not confident, etc. even though I never felt like that before. I started feeling like I`m not good in bed or smth because of constant sexual and emotinal rejection while other guys would be all over just for the chance to be with me.
      In the end I thought it was my fault because he convinced me of that but now when I read about PA, I know it has little to do with me (unless me feeding the monster), other than that, I feel lost. It`s like part of me died inside because of constant rejection. I don`t even know who I am anymore :(
      I could write a book about the damage that he has done but at this point it will do no good, I have to go forward. I just feel like some huge fog has been lifted and I can finally breath. He says he will become a better person for the woman he is with now and whom he impregnated 4 months after he moved out of the house. Well, I don` know what will happen with him but I highly doubt he will change for the better. And his woman is a piece of work too, she harasses me with her pregnancy emails and on FB brags about destroying the marriage and being in affair with a married man.
      If karma does exist, I think it will hit them in the face big time.

  20. barb said,

    June 11, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Wow! So many sad stories, but thanks for sharing. I’ll be brief and summarize mine. 22 years married to whom I now confirm to be a PA (that is, after reading story after story and having researched a few papers and definitions on the topic).

    I describe it like this- “if my husband was lying on the sofa watching tv and I was inside a little paper bag on the ground and I accidentally moved causing the bag to make a noise – he’d be irritated”.

    The wiper thing – he does that.

    If I pass in front of the tv to get something, he contorts his body in disgust as if I’m blocking the final 10 seconds of a tie game.

    He says, I roll over too quickly in my sleep and it bothers him – so now I have to think ‘rotisserie’ and rotate smoothly – even though I’m unconscious of turning too abruptly.

    If I forget to buy something we have run out of (e.g. bath soap – he will never remind me or tell me what to add to a grocery list despite my always asking, let alone stop at the store himself – he’ll wait until it runs out and then ask “is there any soap?” knowing darn well it’s gone, but it is his way to find fault with me.

    and finally:
    We had the family holiday of a lifetime planned – a year off and travelling with the kids. He had some leg surgery, I packed up the whole house for incoming tenant, nursed him as he was couch bound. Never complained about any of it (because is was a great time to be happy).
    He was so grumpy and tensions flared, strife hit. But of course no discussion or resolution like normal people have.
    The day we were to leave as a family – he left without us (me and 3 teens) Just got in the car and off he went!!
    We did catch up 3 weeks later prior to overseas flights. I forgave, I did all the calling to him trying to locate him, etc. Crazy!

    I am slowly learning how to hold my head high despite the covert abuse of 22 years. There is a reason behind his actions (not defending it – but a reality pf some sort of secret warped childhood). I hope he gets released and set free from it all soon.

    • Dara said,

      June 12, 2013 at 1:35 am

      The passive aggressive man in my life never got mad, he got even. Many years ago when my kids were young I was to have Bunco at my house. It was planned a year in advance. It’s one night a year where you fix a finger food dinner and put M&M’s on the table. Eleven women were coming to my house at 7:30. About a half hour before everyone was to arrive he mentioned he had to go to his sisters house to work on his resume. Are you kidding me!? He knew I needed him to watch the kids for a couple of hours. It’s not that big of a deal, really! I know now that he was mad at me for hosting and so now it was payback time. This lack of respect and irresponsibility was just so frustrating. I just wanted to cry. I know it was a pleasure for him to see me exasperated and confused. Talk about crazy making behavior!! One other time we were going to a Christmas program. My daughter needed tights so we drove over to Mervyn’s on our way to the freeway. My daughter and I dashed in the door, made our purchase, and headed back out. When I looked around for the car, where he was waiting with our son, I couldn’t find them. I was dumbfounded. We stood there for a bit and then walked around to the other side of the store and there he was. I said ‘why did you move the car?’. He said he thought I would come out a different door. What?? Are you kidding me.
      Had he just explained to me that he didn’t want to go in the first place I would have made other arrangements. We were late, as usual. Walked in to a dark auditorium as it had already started. I am now in the late stages of a divorce. Twenty-five years of this crap and now at 55 I’m slowly making my way back to the person I used to be before all of this mayhem began.
      Thanks for letting me vent!!

      • barb said,

        June 12, 2013 at 7:48 am

        If I had a dollar for every sabotaged event that was planned – I get your devastation at having to cope with that one on Bunco night.
        Several of your comments have triggered chilling memories for me – like the moving the car thing.
        Your earlier comments from another post also spoke to me.

        ” I’m not proud to say that sometimes I just talked and talked, my voice getting louder by the minute as I tried to reach him.”

        I realised that in ALL the years of our marriage, it was NEVER, NOT ONCE my husband who would try to resolve stuff. I truly believe he could go to his grave never speaking to me again, when he goes off on his ‘silent treatments’ to me. Who can do that? Who can live like that and be happy? And then even though it was he who walked off and shut down, after throwing some verbal abuse my way, he manages, in his mind, to blame me for it.

        and your other comment:
        ” There was never any “easy” conversation between us. No heart to heart, no fun banter. It was always difficult to talk to him. I thought it was me. I was convinced it was me. I couldn’t figure out what was going on. The frustration of never seeming to get through to him. I never had any good ideas. They were quickly shut down with a no.”
        My husband will take private conversations about workmates, friends, etc. and turn them back at me and say things like “no wonder you can’t get along with anyone at work…” He’d listen as if caring, but them use it against me. I learned to share nothing with him because there was no trust or safety with him.

        I also realised after reading others’ comments that he never actually gets ‘angry’ like normal people do and then deal with it maturely – he never displays anger but is always grumpy or mad about the littlest things – constantly in a state of irritation – usually toward me and what I have or haven’t done. It’s a no-win for sure.

  21. claire said,

    June 26, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    I’ve read a lot about PA recently and coming to terms that I’ve been coping with a PA man for the last 26 years. Whilst it feels like my relationship has been one big lie at least I now know I’m not going mad. The result is that we barely speak, he’s never wanted to talk about the things that matter and I don’t want to talk about trivia. I imagine we’ll split eventually he’s not going to change and I want a chance at happiness
    It was the thing about the wipers, so weird, and such a relief to finally have some kind of explanation and shared experience.
    I will no longer get upset about forgotten birthdays, events kept secret, he won’t get a chance to be late picking me up or start projects he’s never going to finish. Best wishes to everyone.

  22. Laila said,

    July 6, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Everything can be twisted by the passive aggressive. My husband “rewrites” my life history claiming all sorts of things which are totally false–to make me look like a messed up loser. So for example, he even said—you have had a falling out with every single friend you’ve ever had your whole life, you have an “anger problem”, that’s just how you are. Both of these are not true–I have lots of friends HE is the one that doesn’t have friends. And I have never been an angry person–until he came along! The reason he said this about me and my friends is because I told him about the only friend I ever lost contact with –he wasn’t doing well psychologically and cut all his friends out of his life. And once I complained about a friend–but just that I wish that she wasn’t so wrapped up in her new boyfriend and that we could still meet now and again! On another occasion—one of my friends said that i was “very sensitive”. My husband made a face like he didn’t know who she was talking about. When she asked him, don’t you see your wife as sensitive? He just shrugged and said “I don’t now”. When she said –you don’t know whether your wife is sensitive or not after 13 years of marriage? He looked a bit confused but pissed off at being challenged and just walked off. I have the feeling that my husband doesn’t see me, know me, or like me at all. If I hadn’t just lost my job I would have left him. I have had enough. I was raised by two very narcissistic parents and realise now that they “trained” me to accept the following behaviour—people who say they care or love you but cancel out those words with everything they do and don’t do. I am supposed to always accept and put up with malicious intent and bad behaviour–that was my early education. My narcissistic parents produced someone who would take their crap as well as everyone else’s. I have only just realised that there is nothing I can do except stay away from them. After I get a job, I intend to leave my husband. Even now, I see him as just an unfortunate but temporary roomate. This is actually easy now —because I can see that this is what he always really wanted. A roomate –someone he can keep a distance from, talk to a bit about TV or the news, and then go off and do his own thing, without having to share anything else, except for sex now and again, and certainly without having to deal with someone else’s “demands” which are always an imposition on him and simply unacceptable. Even if it is a “demand” for a relationship which includes honest behaviour, intimacy, closeness, friendship, and warmth. It is simply unacceptable to him to want all of this from him, or in general. I think that his mild-mannered exterior hides someone really lacking in humanity, who tries to fake it when he has too–but then when he feels he doesn’t have to, he can just show is real, inhuman character. Sorry for the length of this!

    • Jo said,

      July 16, 2013 at 1:01 am

      After reading all these real life experience, mine is the same, every happenings, every crazy behaviours that are being described, I experienced all. Talking about PA man is contented being a room mate, exactly. I understand after 19yrs of marriage why he wasn’t keen to consummate our marriage and left me being his virgin wife for the first 4yrs. Maybe at the end of 4 yr, he ‘tied me down’ with a child. When I conceived my boy, there he ends our marriage. I only came to know about PA characteristics after 16yrs into the marriage and I started to ‘re-live’ again. Like all of you, it is a life of insanity. For the last 3yrs, I tried to get him to understand himself but nothing works. He will always try to find friends to batch back his marriage or rather I should put it his house mate so that he can live a care free life. We were business partners which added more agony to my life. It was a hard break with him when I finally go for divorce. He did not contest for it but our matrimonial flat and the joint custody of our child. I left our biz to him and I am let with nothing so I have to contest for the flat so that my 14yr old son and I have a place to live and I can re-establish a home business. God vindicate my case, it is a miracle. My lawyer initially has no full confidence because under our law, a 5rm government subsidized flat often are ordered to be sold and divided. God is my provider for my son and I because He is a God who said true religion is one that look after the widows and the orphans and He protected us. My husband and his lawyer were so confident that our flat will be sold. God confused them. His lawyer made a blunder by submitting a wrong financial Affidavit, he asked to revoke and was accepted but again submitted the same household because the bank accounts were the same. I believed he did not dare to tell my husband his mistakes so he tried to get my lawyer to make me settle out of court which was to be heard just 2 weeks ago. Anyway, now at least I got the flat and my son accommodation is settled. The marriage though insane but I know God in a deeper sense not in mere letters as G-O-D. God disciplines those whom He loves. I submitted to His Sovereignty. Separation may be a time that allows Him to do a work of salvation restoration to us as a family, as an individual.

  23. Dara said,

    July 7, 2013 at 1:39 am

    It’s never easy to keep it short when talking about passive-aggression. I have written a few comments myself and I always write a long message as once I get started I always have so much to say about what I went through. Anyway, I just read a book called The Silent Marriage: How Passive Aggression Steals Your Happiness by Nora Femenia. I got it for $3.99 on my Kindle. Well worth it. Although it is geared more towards those who are currently dealing with P/A I found it extremely helpful in confirming just exactly what I had been dealing with for the past 25 years. I had wanted to leave for years. But that unfortunately isn’t always the best solution. For financial reasons I stayed. As it is I will be without medical insurance soon enough and will not be able to afford it on my own. As he has only moved out three months ago I am still getting my “Self” back again. I know it will be a long road to feel normal again. I had become a stranger to myself as I doubted myself constantly. Anyway, this book will help you realize that you are not to blame for his problems. He learned this behavior early on his childhood and you had/have nothing to do with it. A saying you may want to remember, from her book, is:
    THIS IS A CONDITION YOU DID NOT CAUSE;
    YOU CAN NEITHER CURE NOR CONTROL IT,
    SO STOP BLAMING YOURSELF.
    I suppose one can live with this crazy making person once they realize they have nothing to do with it.

    • coralf said,

      July 14, 2013 at 5:14 am

      I’m familiar with the three C’s. I think it takes a while for a lot of us to truly take them to heart though.

  24. Dee said,

    July 13, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    My story is of a long silent progression of my soon to be ex’s personality. 25 years of it. He is the quiet one..the charmer. When I started realizing something wasn’t right, my friends and parents said…’oh you are so lucky, he is so nice’ I tried to explain what happened behind closed doors..they thought I was sensitive and overreacting. We started going to counseling and he actually manipulated the therapists into believing I was the one that was nuts !! Finally after much research, I found the passive aggressive diagnoses. Brought this discovery to our new counselor and that is where the story ends. My PA husband was now ‘discovered’ and the gig was up. He was like a deer in headlights, backed into a corner. Therapist was asking /confronting his behavior and making him accountable. He was having no part of it and we are now in a middle of a divorce.
    We rarely argued. He had me trained..i walked on eggshells. I had to be careful of how I said things, when I said them, how I worded them and the tone I used. He would use any of these as a reason why he would not respond to me or carrying on a discussion and walk away. He lied my omission … for things that were insignificant. He lied just to lie. He would twist things that I said or events that happened to make me look like a bitch. Hence , the eggshell analogy.
    He NEVER supported me with the kids. I was the disciplinarian, I handed out the chores etc. My husband just ‘floated’ in the background …so I looked like the bad guy to my kids. we would agree on a punishment and he would go behind my back and revoke it. He would even have our kids lie to me !! He would buy the kids whatever they wanted..a horse, cars, trips..etc. However, he NEVER hugged his kids, kissed them or told them he loved them.
    My husband was inappropriate with women for years, but not necessarily in front of me. He would have ‘dates’ with other moms in my sons cubscout troop. Conveniently bringing my son , and the mom…her son and they would have an outing. I told him NUMEROUS times that it was not appropriate as it appeared to be a date , he agreed, would stop. He then would find other ways to stroke his ego…social media. I started becoming suspicious and notice he was missing some of his ‘pills’ and carrying them in his pocket. When I confronted him , he said he carried them ‘just in case’. REALLY?
    Then I found the emails.. of his affair. He said it was not physical..just sexting. So, he went and got his own phone contract so I couldn’t see who he was texting. He said it was my fault he got his own line, because I shouldn’t have been looking and he needed privacy. His phone will even go in the shower with him. In these emails, he told the woman he loved them..funny, he cant even say it to his own children.
    Wont even get started about his gambling addiction and how we split up the house bills into percentages based on how much we make.
    He claims it is his time now..to do what he wants to do..because of me and the kids and the house, he cant do what he wants to do. He want a hot rod, a boat , a truck..etc. Yeah…I dare him to tell his kids that. I now realize..its not me or the kids. The man will NEVER be happy. Always looking for a way to be happy..mainly material things. Inside he is a very angry, sad, manipulative controlling man. It must be mentally and emotionally exhausting. No wonder why he looks like shit. He is always the victim. Very sad really.
    I am soooo excited to get this toxic person out of my life, so I can find myself again. I don’t even know who I am anymore.
    Oh…and the wiper thing, he does that to

  25. Kayvee said,

    July 18, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    The 19 years of marriage I am now ending have been a total waste other than making me hyper-vigilant and horrifically angry. My 44 Year old PA husband has gone to stay at his brothers, I think (another PA) for at least the third time in the past year. Years of therapy and his behavior is only getting worse. Sunday morning he baited me into an argument by lying. Later admitted that he lied and ‘wanted me to be angry’. I had awoken in a chipper, cheerful mood that seemed to make him angrier and angrier. Anything that makes me happy, he hates. He has been obstructing, sandbagging, obfuscating me the entirety of our marriage. I was trained for abuse by my NP mom. Unfortunately, her home is probably where I’ll end up, as we’ve struggled financially for years in spite of my valiant full-time efforts, plus odd-jobs on the side. He was to have started a new job Wednesday – I don’t know if that happened – just when I think things are starting to look up, he will somehow sabotage – money issues were going to be behind us with his new employ. I guess he could not stand that I might indirectly benefit from that and made sure to throw a wrench in the works – the divorce will also make it nearly impossible for me to purchase the business where I work; an offer that was made to me only weeks ago, and when I told him about it I said, “Please don’t sabotage this for me – it will directly benefit you to refrain from your normal destruction”. I knew this was coming…..I have been hoarding every penny I could (outside of household budget – I am a person of honor who would not lie, steal, cheat…) for the past two+ years knowing that he’s a liar of the highest order and at some point, my self-respect would not allow me to stay – would kick in and I would have to find myself lodging. The pittance I’ve saved won’t last long. I have 3dogs and 3 cats and renters do now allow for that – I don’t know what to do. He’s still trying to control the course of our separation by calling all the shots: coming by the house while I’m not there to get ALL the mail (not suspicious at all, right?), TELLING me that he’ll call on certain night at certain time, being righteously indignant that I refuse to tolerate the lies (this is at least the 6th time he’s been caught and promised to never lie to me again). I meant my vows, but God would not condone this, right? RIGHT??????? HELP.

  26. Caity said,

    July 19, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Something that all of you poor women who have husbands / bf’s who have done this to you and left you for another woman…the other woman was taken for a ride too. Certain the man who is charming and loving and considerate to a fault, has been the victim in a loveless marriage that they tried so hard to save. Then after a very few short months with this man, it becomes horrifyingly obvious something is wrong and the intimatacy promised and offered at first, dries up. No more closeness emotionally and sexually denied, in fact each and every one of the things he’s perfected against his former wife or gf, he now uses on the new one. Thusly, she realizes exactly what was happening, that the former wife or gf was probably done a favor by causing him to leave them (although I’m sure it doesn’t feel like it). After leaving his wife and his life, my ‘future’ decided I was too demanding, too close, too ‘much’. Previous to that I could do no wrong, but eventually the conflict he hated he had to create. Nothing I said could help and I was at fault for everything. Yes, eggshell walking. I have since realized that he was the 3rd in a line of relationships over many years who were PA…evidently I attract them.
    For all the women who have been hurt in this way and who’s husbands left them for another woman, I collectivly apologize. In some cases we knew it was wrong but he was so damn convincing and in the end, we just wanted to make, who we thought was a victim, happy. I”m suffering only a nth of what you ladies have had to suffer…I don’t know how you stayed with him so long. I couldn’t do it, and even tho he ‘left’ me…I’m relieved he did. He has no idea what a favor he’s done me.

  27. Cindy said,

    July 19, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    wow!! i’m so happy to have found this web site. Because i feel like others know how i really feel. I told my friends but i don’t think they really understand, unless they have been experienced the same thing. I’ve been married to my husband for 28 years. I recently discovered the P.A. and I am still baffled at his behavior. A few years ago I went to the book store and started reading on different mental disorders, then one day I accidently found the PA article on about.com. I thought i discovered gold! I didn’t feel so crazy after that. But reading this web site of your different stories tells my life with my PA husband. I had to laugh to keep from crying when I read the windshield wiper stories. My spouse do the same thing and always says he can see without them for the most part.

  28. Anonymous said,

    July 22, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    One thing that I learned is that our mens’ changing actions can be from low testosterone. Keep that in mind Ladies.

  29. Zorah said,

    July 26, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Oh wow…I am so glad I found this. I’m up at 3:38 a.m. trying to process an interaction from my PA ex-husband a few days ago. I’m also dealing with a friend that I was in a relationship briefly (we are roommates now b/c I’m a divorced Mom going back to school) that has a PA problem, too.

    I was asking myself how in Hades did I manage to attract people like this? So I was very pleased to find this written up by a fellow NT (I’m an INTP). My ex-husband is an ISFJ, too (the friend is an INFP). I read that PA people are often attracted to those that had similar childhoods but instead of adopting a PA to cope, these people learned to be emotionally expressive and take charge. I’m not particularly emotionally expressive but I can and do express them. I tend to take charge by the way of “Well, since no one else is at the damn wheel!”. I’m not afraid of conflict and willingly dive into difficult discussions if I see that it’s necessary to resolve things. I’m all about growth and improvement and don’t mind making sacrifices in a romantic relationship (or the ones I have with my children) to create better tomorrows.

    Right now, I have to say that my life is a mess because I allowed myself to believe in these “nice” men. I trusted them and now that it’s been blown to bits, I feel a sense of despair that I have never experienced. Everyday it’s all that much harder to keep going and pull myself out of this pit. Having a chronic illness and four kids to care for makes things all that much more difficult. I have to trust that I have enough strength, belief, and will in myself to get where I need to be. It was good to read your words. Thank you.

    • coralf said,

      July 26, 2013 at 11:38 am

      Yep.

      I think the hardest part for me as an NT type was realising that none of what happened is all that logical.

      I tried very hard to understand what happened, but sooner or later you have to admit that there is no logic and you will never “get it”.

      People just aren’t logical, which I guess is why researchers don’t use the scientific method when studying people.

      Healing is also illogical and boils down to that horrid word TIME! Lots of it.
      You know when you get to that place when your focus shifts.

      Although there are clearly some wounds that don’t heal that you just have to learn to live with.

      • Dee said,

        July 26, 2013 at 1:36 pm

        I think the endless destructive relationship we have with PA partners is best summed up by the phrase ‘ a healthy mind will never understand a sick mind’. I tried for a long time to fix my husband and our marriage. Now I know it was impossible …. because I couldn’t understand him, plain and simple. How can somebody you’ve been married to for 25 years look you in the eye, lie, and treat you like a piece of shit. Looking back on our marriage, I don’t believe he ever loved me. We had ‘moments’ of happiness, but he would erase them by bringing them up and saying…I was a bitch at that time, he just agreed w/me to give me my way, twist the ‘moment’ or event into a negative situation that never happened to justify (in his own sick mind) that once again..im the bad guy. We would go MONTHS with absolutely no issues … then out of no where he would say…’you remember when… well, you were a bitch that day.. or ‘ I didn’t want to buy that, I just agreed to make you happy..see you always get your way’ So… I always got the rug pulled out from under me. Never knowing what was real or fantasy.

      • Dara said,

        July 29, 2013 at 8:22 am

        I feel your pain, Dee. And why the hell did it take so long for us to figure it out. It was the same for me after 25 years of marriage, but I should say I stayed in the marriage because of my kids, and learned to just ignore him as I didn’t want any of his crap thrown my way. My nice times with him was the few random days in a month when he was actually nice. I’d get lulled into thinking maybe a change was coming. LOL. Like you, the rug would be pulled and he’d be back to himself again. Towards the end I was staying away from the house as much as possible (kids were late teens), and out of his way of being a target for his sarcasm and jokes at my expense. I stopped reacting. He probably divorced me cuz I was no longer “fun” to play with. I wonder sometimes, as he sits in his apartment, how boring his life must be without me. No one to poke fun of, just his only little twisted reality.

      • coralf said,

        September 14, 2013 at 8:29 am

        I completely agree with your first sentence.

        Just like my divorce can be completely summed up by my answer to his exiting sentence, “I can’t do this anymore”, to which I responded, “do what anymore?”

  30. Repenting@leisure said,

    July 31, 2013 at 1:12 am

    HOW does one get away from a passive aggressive monster when one has no job, no money and no family to help?

    • Dee said,

      August 3, 2013 at 8:37 pm

      Get a job…even if part-time. Start saving. If you don’t…you will look back a year from now and regret it.

    • coralf said,

      August 3, 2013 at 8:45 pm

      The same way you eat an elephant. One meal, one bite at a time. And when it gets overwhelming you try again tomorrow, but you never give up.

      Tomorrows bring as many surprises as the ones that got us here.

  31. anonymous said,

    August 6, 2013 at 4:20 am

    WOW. I am somewhat speechless, yet feel a very strong pull to reply where I normally would continue reading story after story searching desperately for answers & continued strength…perhaps confirmation I am not crazy. Answers to how in the world could someone after 16 yrs of marriage & finally getting the strength to divorce a man who was an Emotional Blackmailer, find themselves struggling now to end (& stay away this time) from a PA man !!!!???? I applaud all of you for reaching
    out & sharing your stories. It truly is remarkable how our upbringing, both the PA & our own, greatly impacts how & what we perceive love to be. While divorcing, I knew I had to do the work to heal myself. I too was told I was crazy for feeling the way I did. My ex-husband literally told me he would take me to every Dr in the country until we had answers as to why I questioned him & felt the way I did. I did feel crazy at times…in a fog of confusion. I knew these things were happening. My instinct told me something was terribly wrong, yet somehow my thoughts & feelings would be twisted to the point I questioned my own sanity. God Bless my therapist for shedding light & giving me clarity to see everything for what it was ! However, old habits die hard. I also believe this is why the statistics are so terrible for 2nd marriages. Ladies, if we do not do the work to heal the very core of ourselves so we become whole healthy women, we are almost inevitably going to fall again for the same type of man…I am living proof. Thank the Lord I had done enough work on myself & had gotten almost 100% healthy prior to meeting my PA or I would not have the know how to stay away now. An emotional roller coaster in which I didn’t pay to get on. Oh they are charming for sure. I bought it hook, line, & sinker. He has never been married & no children…a Red Flag or a Blessing?…I wondered. I have 2 children. As much of a big heart that I have & know I could love someone else’s children, I have to admit it was nice not having to make that adjustment. Still, not long into the relationship things just felt weird. I, like so many of you, couldn’t put a finger on it…just odd things would occur. “Tentatively” making plans then breaking them, yet always had an out because after all they were tentative. The big High of the possibility followed by the tremendous Low of disappointment. The forever doing things with his parents yet trying to get him to join my family functions or a work Christmas party was like pulling teeth. Man I was working hard at this. I knew at this point (again with help from counseling) exactly who I was & what I wanted. I too was independent. Shockingly so after being a stay at home mom for 12 yrs & with no degree. By the time I divorced, my ex was making great money yet I walked away with almost nothing (knowing that it would happen due to control). I didn’t care, I wanted out. I got a full time job & purchased my own little work in progress house…fitting since I felt I was the same. I was bound & determined to never depend on a man for finances again. I didn’t need my PA for $. I wanted him for companionship, love, & emotional support. I don’t feel any need to rush down any aisle anytime soon, but if I am going to have a man in my life I want them to add to my joy & be a true partner for me, having both of our lives become fuller & easier because you help one another, not be a joy stealer. I am tired of receiving text messages that don’t acknowledge what I have said…lot’s of times something completely rude (joking of course) or lack of acknowledgment for something positive I have going on & turning the focus onto him…all leaving me with a disgruntled look on my face while trying to decipher through the what feels like a nightmare rather than love. Sometimes I swore he really couldn’t be happy for me & had to try to bring me down. I mean seriously, is genuine healthy love supposed to feel so bad??? NO. Is someone you care for & love so much, & they claim to love you the same in return, supposed to abandon you, withdraw, ignore you with the silent treatment for however long they feel like it because you were trying to communicate & lovingly express concern over certain behaviors or simply asked them to help you with something…only to come searching for you when they feel the dust has settled & is now brushed under the rug…full of promises, those cute innocent smiles we fell in love with, perhaps with an event planned to sweep us off our feet…AGAIN??? NO. So difficult when you are an Empath. We truly are only responsible for ourselves. We cannot help or change someone unwilling to help themselves. Hard to accept sometimes when we still love them & because we don’t want to believe someone who loves us would hurt us like this, but true. I am moving on. I survived divorce. I will survive this. Each day is getting easier. Love & prayers for all of you.

  32. Anonymous said,

    August 8, 2013 at 4:17 am

    I am just in awe….it has been 21 years for me. I have looked high low for answers to my husband’s behavior and finally found it when another lady in my divorce care class suggested I read a book on PA men…there he was…on every page!…he was the picture of the good husband to others. but at home he would withdraw when angry…brood…hold grudges…never wanting to address problems. Eventually he was always angry…irritated by any and everything. I later found out he would take revenge by having relationships with other women…always playing the nice guy…their knight in shining armor..literally addicted to their approval….meanwhile leaving me to deal with the kids, the bills, the chores….and lying about it the whole time ….he has done sooo many disrespectful things I am too embarrassed to even mention them…the whole time claiming to be a Christian. I soon realized he was only nice to me when he wanted something or felt guilty about some filthy behavior he had covertly engaged in…..As soon as I became wise to his games…he turned downright evil. Now he wants a divorce…he is doing me a favor. I am amazed how long it takes us to figure these idiots out…

  33. anonymous said,

    August 9, 2013 at 3:59 am

    I am pretty sure you can all relate to this…My PA & I had not been out to dinner in months. I suggested once a month we search for a new restaurant (taking turns choosing where to go). Nothing elaborate, but something different. At first he tried to make me feel it was a bad idea & why can’t I just love him for him. Later I guess he somewhat came on board & said “if you let me be a lazy guy on your couch Friday night, I will take you out to dinner on Saturday.” I was thrilled ! We weren’t married. I couldn’t wait for the weekend ! While I still had rose colored glasses on, I still got butterflies about sharing an evening together & being on his arm next to him. We had our relaxing Friday night…me waiting on him hand & foot making sure he was happy & comfortable as usual. Saturday came & I naturally woke up in a good mood. He couldn’t get out the door that morning fast enough (most Saturdays at my house I made breakfast but not this time as he didn’t want anything). I continued on with my day & we text periodically. I told him how excited I was & he quickly reminded me “it”s just dinner.” I told him to not burst my bubble right now or knock me off of my high…after all, my excitement was only because of how much I loved him. Arrived at his home. Didn’t exactly get the “warmest welcome”. I could tell he was off & something was bothering him yet when asked he denied anything was wrong. We went to dinner & the restaurant was lovely…conversation not so much….definitely something missing. Went back to his place. After snuggling on the couch for awhile, he wanted to go to bed. This was now my moment…little did he know, I packed a negligee’ & went in the bathroom to put it on. When I came out (and might I say at 41, I may have some flaws but I looked pretty darn good all done up with my high heels on!!!!! :)). First thing he said was “you’re wearing THAT to bed???” Hmmm???? Did I just hear him correctly? Thinking quickly i said well we can go to bed but we don’t have to go to sleep ! That’s when he blew his top. Where is it written in stone that taking me to dinner meant we had to have sex ???!!!!! I was mortified. We had had intimacy issues but they had gotten much better (always controlled by him) so I was stunned. We fought & he said I made him uncomfortable by putting that on. I left the next morning & said I would call…that I needed to think about some things & collect myself. I called him, we spoke, well I spoke. He said he loved me & still wanted us to be together. Me being me, I was more than willing to work through these intimacy issues (because I had not yet put all the pieces together & had left a marriage where sex was expected 4 times a week). He said he would call that night. I didn’t hear from him for a month. No response to phone calls, txt msgs, emails…nothing. Out of the blue, he came for me with promising love. Made a big date for us, something he knew I would love. After crying every day in utter confusion, I took him back. This time though, my eyes were open. 4 months later & enough occurrences (too many to list & too embarrassing), to have me realize something was seriously wrong here. I felt the withdraw coming, spoke to him about it. He claimed everything & WE were fine. It’s been 3 weeks & not a word. This time I have not reached out to him once via anything. I am done. I am over it & deserve much better. I have researched & researched for answers to explain his behavior & have found the answer. He is a PA. I now believe he really didn’t want to take me to dinner. He was crabby that entire day. He did it so I really couldn’t complain, but he didn’t WANT to. He withheld sex as my punishment for asking him to do such a thing & when I called him out on his something seriously feels wrong behavior, he silenced me . I know he will come for me again sometime. I can’t & won’t do it anymore. I actually feel wonderful right now. I have my life back. I am smiling A LOT more. It was a long 18 months of ins & outs so I can’t imagine 18 yrs.. I don’t know if I ever had one week with him that at some point something he did or said didn’t strike me as strange or unsettling.

  34. Anonymous said,

    August 15, 2013 at 4:08 am

    Thanks for researching and reflecting on your story,,

    Oh ya..After 16 years of marriage and three kids. I came to realize, he is a PA positive . And finally, stopped believing his lies and promises. Again, he looked too calm, kind, caring, playing victim, playing depressed, playing broke. Blamed me for everything wrong. He said i am sick with mental illness!!! However, With evidence, I found him to be a big fat lair, multiple affairs at each time, physical more than 30 on record. He was far from broke! He never did chores and always said: he will handle things his way, he never did. He managed to make everyone believe I am bad and that he was kind enough not to divorce me as he felt sorry for me. When the truth that i took good care of him in bed, cooked his favorite foods, supported him financially (I had a better career), took care of the kids, and covered for his disasters. I don’t blame anyone believing,, he has the skill.. I am not sorry for the years spent. I got wonderful children. Plan now is to do all the things I like. To all ladies in a similar situation, never look back, you can never look forward and backwards the same time. Thanks very much for sharing your stories.

  35. Free-but-sad said,

    August 16, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Hi,
    Well, I have read all the posts, and am confident through what I have read that I can finally put a name on the problem, and take cold comfort that I am not going mad!!
    Like so many others, I have a lot I would like to unload that has been boiling away for so long, but I will do my best not to rant!!
    I have been married 24 years soon, the last few having been hell. I was widowed in my late 20′s, and met my now husband in my mid 30′s. We hit it off straight away, were inseperable all through those years. I knew he had a very traumatic childhood, but he would never talk about it, it was through his brother that I learned bits and pieces over the years, but even he had problems concerning their childhood, which showed through, as he had lots of personality issues, and relied on my husband and myself a lot, as he saw my husband as the strong one who coped with the past.
    Over the years we had a great marriage, social life, jobs etc, no issues out of the ordinary as such, we just enjoyed life to the full. Then, a few years ago, their father turned up out of the blue saying he had split from his wife and was living in town. After a few months of having him in our lives, my husband and brother in laws behaviour changed. I started secretly delving, and found that their childhood was more than traumatic, it was horrifying. I immediately banned their father from coming near our house, and so did my sister in law. We pooled our information, and realised we had a deep and serious situation, which extended to 2 half brothers as well, who also turned out to have severe emotional problems due to the father. Sadly the brother in laws marriage didn’t survive, and they divorced within months of all this coming to light.
    I never doubted that we wouldn’t survive all this…wrong! A few months later, I came home from work, all cheery only for him to explode! He was, I know now, the typical PA. He’d always been calm, laid back, happy, thoroughly likeable, so when he exploded, it was totally alien to me, I was reeling. The rest is text book, shut his self away, addicted to computer games, secretive, talked of suicide, looked ill and stopped eating, then started disappearing for days.
    That’s when I stopped coping! I never knew if he’d be home on a Friday, he would just go, I didn’t know where or who he was with. I started researching, and came to the comclusion he was BPD, but having found this site, I’m confident he’s PA. He came back from one of his “trips” to announce he wanted to leave, to sort himself out and clear his head….6 years later, I forced his hand and made him get a flat. That was 9 months ago. I want..no…need…to have closure, I’ve learned enough now to know he will never clear his head, face his demons or admit he has a serious problem. It breaks my heart, as I would love to see him well and in control of his thoughts and genuinely enjoying life, but it’s not going to happen. The stage we are at now is, he comes over every Sunday for the day, we get on great as long as I don’t want to talk about anything to do with divorce, or our/his problems!
    I am so pleased to have found this site, I have felt so much better for knowing I’m not alone with this, but sad that there are so many others in the same boat!
    I don’t know where I go from here, I see there is no going back, but at the same time, I hate the thought of him not being in my life. Any advice would be gratefully recieved….that’s if anyone is still awake through reading this!!!

    • coralf said,

      August 17, 2013 at 5:36 am

      It’s a very painful trip going from thinking you are happily married to nothing very suddenly.

      The advice I got that seems to be sound is that will know if and when you are done and that doing nothing is also a choice.

      On the other hand one of my divorce support friends hung on and is still there five years later and still in pain. I went no contact and my life at the moment is great.

      It took that extreme choice to be able to step back and see the wood from the trees.

      Just getting through those first 2 years is an achievement. The chemical imbalance that occurs is shocking and off balancing.

      I would also google the top 20 things cheaters do/say because they are virtualy scripted and you’ve mentioned a few of them.

      I feel for you.

  36. Dawn said,

    August 31, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    You could have written my life out here. And apparently many other women! I feel lucky I only wasted 7 years of my life & never married the fucker.
    The lying about bills, the possessions not being taken away. It was one month ago that I finally moved out (and threw it away). Thank goodness.
    Thanks for the reminder that I didn’t deserve it.

    • Dee said,

      August 31, 2013 at 4:59 pm

      So….my husband left..even before the divorce was final. After some ‘investigating’ turns out he had a queen size bedroom set delivered to an address, also found some receipts for Victoria secret and receipt for dinners, lunches and women’s clothing. Funny..when we were married we split all the bill..57% to 43%. I wonder if his new girlfriend has to follow the same rules..yeah right. In the meantime, he is behind paying his ‘share’ of the house bills, although all 4 of his kids were home this summer. Its amazing how someone can leave after 25 years and doesn’t skip a beat. Sad really. On to his next victim. Honestly..i feel sorry for her. Not knowing what (eventually) will happen. Hes just schmoozing her now. Now that I look back..i think there has been many women for a long time. Although he will never admit it. Even now, he says he is living with his ‘work’ friends in one town. Even looked me in the eye and said ‘HONESTLY’ However, found out bedroom set was delivered to another town..and yes..his truck was there. Now..i realized..every time he said honestly and looked me in the eye, he was lying. Such a sad existence. He lies so much, he does it without hesitation..its his nature. My 3 older kids left back for college, have a 14yr old home…alone. His father left, his siblings left, HIS dog of 13 years just died last week , starting a new high school this week and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes 2 years ago.. His father hasn’t come to spend time with him since he left. Need to get him into counseling , he holds feelings in..just like his father. I want to take care of that before he has the same problems. How much can a kid take???

  37. Gracie said,

    September 12, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    wow….exactly what i am experiencing ‘my partner is passive aggressive but i do not know what to do because i truly love him…All these comments just perfectly fits my partners behavior but at least i picked up on it on our second year dating HOWEVER now he wants to official get married …should i accept because i love him and hope that he will maybe change or will i just be signing my death certificate by accepting his marriage proposal….HELP!!!

    • coralf said,

      September 14, 2013 at 8:19 am

      People can change but not due to other people only due to their own thought and/or trauma. Hoping someone will change is hopeless.

      Listen to your gut. It’s far more accurate than we give credit for.

    • coralf said,

      September 14, 2013 at 8:20 am

      and google “love bombing”.

    • James said,

      November 23, 2013 at 8:33 pm

      I would suggest telling him you love him but cannot marry him because of his behavior. Give him the ultimatum, telling him therapy or you are gone. Meet with the therapist first and describe his behavior. Keep in mind that a PA can manipulate a therapist. I know. I have done it more than once.

      The bottom line is he probably loves you deeply but subconsciously he fears losing you. That is why he behaves the way he does.

    • gforce said,

      December 10, 2013 at 2:49 am

      Good lord! NO NO do not marry this man! Marrying someone because you “hope” that they will change is a terrible idea! You can’t change anyone, and believe me, passive aggressive’s don’t really want to change. “Love,” is not enough to sustain a real relationship. Passive aggressives, really don’t know how to be in a relationship, and you can love this guy from here to Eternity, and believe me, you won’t get much in return for it but grief. What’s the point.

    • Anonymous said,

      February 25, 2014 at 4:21 am

      You will be signing your death certificate- sorry. These men will drive you stark raving mad! I hate to be blunt, but while you love him, believe me, he doesn’t love you. I do not believe they are capable of that feeling. They are users and manipulators. Imagine a life where you can’t express how you feel, a life where you will get the silent treatment, a life where intimacy will cease (believe me, it will), a life where this man will only do what’s in his best interest, never yours, a life of loneliness, a life of constantly questioning yourself because of his words or actions. I implore you to save yourself. Life will feel wrong with this man and it will only worsen as time goes by. You deserve better than this.

  38. Anonymous said,

    September 19, 2013 at 1:34 am

    I met someone on Christian Mingle. Dated him for 14 mths. He turned out to be a huge PA! Everytime we had a “tiff”, he dominated the conversation and pointed all the blame on me. He’d twist things that I said to make me feel really bad. For example: He has massive road rage- The cursing/anger nonsense. Because I told him that it makes me uncomfortable, he tells me that he’s 48 years old and isn’t changing for anyone! All I was doing was expressing my feelings- I feel like I’m on eggshells alot- He has some underlying anger issue and I never know when he’s going to get mad. He’d never apologize or humble himself to make things right…He’d never comfort me when I was upset/crying. I always felt that there was some kind of little distance b/t us- I never felt adored. He’d tell me he loved me, but, his actions sure didn’t show it when he was angry! To me, love is an action, not just a word. He also ignored me for days if we had a disagreement. I’d try to communicate and he would shut down. One time, he ignored me for 5 days!! We broke up 1 month ago- One part of me feels relief…the other part feels sadness. I loved him and always wanted the best for him. It’s a shame- He needs help and alot of prayer!

  39. Devon said,

    October 10, 2013 at 3:23 am

    I just evicted my PA boyfriend and his daughter. All of you have described my life for the last year and a half, such a charmer to begin with then manipulating PA behaviour showed itself. I thought at first it was me, but after spending a great deal of time reading about men withdrawing, not communicating and selfishness I discovered PA.

    I tried to make it work and give him what he needed, but after months of nothing in return I made a pact with myself. I would give all the things he asked for with no complaints for one month. I would only ask once for what I needed, the rest was up to him. At the end of the month there had been no change, except I was still the bad guy. His daughter and him were living with me at my house, paying no rent and showing me no respect. Finally I decided to catch his daughter lying and see what he did. She had a tantrum and threw my things at the wall, breaking them. They both started to abuse me as if it was my fault she had lied. He was bringing things up like ” you didn’t do the dishers 6 months ago” and various other diggs. Who can remember 6 months ago? I am sure thought that his lazy daughters arms and legs are not painted on so maybe he should have asked her to contribute for once in her life.

    After some time of these ridiculous statements ( the only ones made in our whole relationship, my dog is more responsive) I called time out, waited for them to go to bed, took back all my house keys, went to the bedroom and asked him if he was awake. He said yes to that I calmly replied ” you and me, we are done! Be out of my house before the end of the weekend”

    The next day I put his daughter and a suitcase for each of them in a cab and sent them both on their merry way.

    For all of the other lady’s who posted, there is no better feeling than taking your own destiny in your hands! There are only so many years, months, weeks and day in our lives and once they are gone you can’t get them back!!

    Yes he too did the wiper thing, and the no sex, and I did try, even got counciling, but None of that works with a PA. the only one you can change is you, so decide what you want and go get it! If you think you can’t get out please know there is always a way. Just want to be happy bad enough to get through some tough times to get there!

    My thoughts are with you all

    • Bev said,

      October 22, 2013 at 1:18 pm

      Devon,

      You have given me strength. I am so proud of you for taking back your life and wish you continued happiness.

      One positive thing about being in and then ending a PA relationship – you will spot any other PA types a mile away and never let them near!

      My best wishes and thoughts are with you and everyone reading and posting here. None of us are alone.

  40. Bev said,

    October 22, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    I love the analogies/descriptions used by you all. I could write a thesis about my experiences but will keep it as brief as possible.

    Not only is my husband of 29 years PA, he also has zero empathy and has admitted he cannot try to out himself in anyone else’s shoes.

    I can state with certainty that he is arrogant, narcissistic and incapable of having any feeling for anyone other than himself, including our children.

    I have been the only parent to our children and the only person in our marriage. Like so many others, I believed I was the reason he was so wonderful in social gatherings but so cold and silent at home. Even now one of my siblings takes his side but I suspect that is because they cannot deal with the reality of being taken in by him for so many years. The realization and acceptance of having been duped by someone you have loved and cared for, for over half your life is gruesome but is also a fantastic wake-up call.

    His mother and sister have very similar personalities and their husbands, gentle, kind but weak, were and are treated like second class citizens in their own homes.

    I describe my husband as a cardboard figurine. The outside looks human and lots of his energy is used to maintain the image, but there is nothing inside.

    Sometimes I have wished he would resort to physical violence as it would make the divorce process easier, but he never would – he is too busy sitting in silence and ignoring anything said to him.

    Our 30th Wedding anniversary is in March 2014 but I will be well away from him by then.

  41. Ann said,

    October 31, 2013 at 8:55 am

    I recommend the book, “Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft. You’ll find out you’re not crazy. Ladies, please stay safe.

  42. Dee said,

    November 2, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Also…a fantastic book by Scott Wetzler “Living with the Passive Aggressive Man” I have read it 2x already and use it as my therapy.

    • Dara said,

      November 7, 2013 at 5:37 pm

      Thanks for the book suggestion.
      This is for anyone. I heard people mention that they can relate to the windshield wiper scenario by their P/A’s. My P/A never uses his blinkers. This is so annoying to me. So much safer and polite to use the blinker to change lanes. Just wondering.

      • Anonymous said,

        November 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm

        OMG I feel like I have been in a washing machine for 10 years- I felt anger and rage and didnt know why- I had my thyroid checked, thorght I was bi-polar, thorght I was simply going mad then realised after I saw my divorce lawyer that all this was because I was married to a PA !- I feel like I have been living with a ghost- I skate forwards, he skates backwards!- of course I am the one with the problem and I need anger management!- nothing to do with the fact he walked out on me 1 day before my exams!- 7 days after giving birth or when I bought a clock he did not like- my husband would run to his passive mother and domineering father!
        Thankfully I have many friends or I would by now be in the asylum having spent 10 years with this brutally mentally cruel, covertly angry passive aggressive man!- I am now trying to rebuild my life!

  43. Kiki said,

    November 12, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Having been with a PA for 17 years, suspecting but not sure if this was actually his problem, I have found myself riveted to these stories. The main thing that caught my attention was the windshield-wiper nonsense! I couldn’t ever figure it out and now I know. The truth is that I am now so relieved, as well as being totally shocked and very worried that I have finally got a name for my husband’s horribly crazy-making behavior. My anxiety is off the charts, and my internal compass has been smashed. He has done a bit of everything I have read; from all of the lying (over things big and small), to the affair (which he wouldn’t admit to and still calls “just chatting with an old girlfriend”) to the blaming of everyone for anything wrong with his life…and the ultimate heartbreaker for me which is no sex whatsoever, and I have sought to make my marriage work while he floats along in his rickety, leaky boat, thinking all is well while he sinks further and further into his self-delusion. And good old me, sinking right along with him.
    Thank you to everyone who has written, because of you all I am making a plan to get out of this marriage as soon and safely as I possibly can. I fear leaving, as I have tried to in the past and he has done everything from threatening to kill himself to stalking me. Honestly, though, I cannot take it anymore, and I am determined not to throw away anymore of my life. Wish me luck.

  44. tish said,

    November 14, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    married my pa husband 8 years ago (together for about 10). after years of questioning my OWN mental health, and accepting blame for EVERYTHING in my marriage, I filed for divorce. ironically, he did not want the divorce, yet was perpetually unhappy and abusive.

    during our separation, I’ve met about 6 men who are EXTREMELY interested in dating me. they also have a healthy emotional affect…it’s refreshing. as I lived the past decade believing that he was the ONLY one who would ever love me, that all other men just wanted to use me for sex (he’d withheld sex more times than he initiated….because, he loved me of course, and sex is NEVER about love), and at 40, i’m pretty much done.

    to say he was wrong is an understatement. for those afraid to leave out of fear of being alone, DON’T BELIEVE IT! these guys are damaged and need you to believe you are worthless in order for you not to leave him. and of course all other men only want to use you.

    it’s all LIES…

    so, now, we’re in the final stages of the divorce. and I look forward to the day we sign on the line, and I get my life back…

    • coralf said,

      November 14, 2013 at 6:08 pm

      Watch out for love bombing. I
      have also learned that the particularly shiny people frequently have invisible red flags waving wildly at you.

  45. James said,

    November 23, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Last weekend I came to the realization that I am a PA male. I was married for 14 years and divorced 3-1/2 years ago. I exhibit almost every characteristic described in this article and within the comments. I got involved after my divorce with a Borderline Personality Disordered person with strong covert narcissistic characteristics. She destroyed my
    world and exposed deep childhood issues. I was controlled by my father and raised in a family that didn’t show their emotions. I came across PA while researching Covert Narcissism. They are VERY similar with the only real difference I can see is that a PA does have empathy. I will say I am a very loving person who loves bringing joy to the lives of others. MY PROBLEM HAS ALWAYS BEEN SHOWING LOVE TO THOSE CLOSEST TO ME. I DO LOVE THEM DEEPLY. I am cold, calculating and hold deep resentment for those that I really do love. I am in therapy and know what has caused this behavior but I still do not know WHY I behave this way. I will fix this. I have emotionally abused every woman I have ever been in a relationship with. Why? Insecurity, fear of abandonment, possibly even feeling like my partner is no good because she wants to be with me. Fear of being left is probably the biggest factor, at least on a conscious level.

    I still have a good relationship with my ex wife. We have 2 beautiful children (I am now in tears) that we are raising together. It hurts me so deeply to think my behavior may affect them for the rest of their lives. I am going to get better for them. When I care across an article similar to this one I broke down in tears. It is all true and it is me. I emailed the article to my ex wife and called her in tears. I told her that I was so sorry. It is a huge reality check when you read something that says you treat those closest to you like a pair of slippers. I can’t change the past but I can focus on repairing the black hole inside of me that longs for love and acknowledgment that I didn’t receive as a child. I have been searching for an unconditional love that a child needs to develop into a man. I now know that this love that I long for is Peter Pan fantasy love.

    I don’t know how to show love over an extended length of time. Why? I wish I knew the answer to this. It kills me to know that I hurt the people closest to me. It angers me to feel resentment towards those that I love. I fear going into a new relationship because I know that my emotions and feelings will turn on me. I long to be in love and to give myself to someone unconditionally. I want to open my heart and put it all on the line. The fear of either being rejected or my feelings turning on me (due to this fear) is overwhelming. I have read many articles about PA in the past week and it looks like I don’t have to live with this the rest of my life. I will do the work that is required to make myself healthy.

    NOTE: If I had read about PA during the relationship I do not know if I would have acknowledged that I was this person. Like I mentioned before my recent relationship has brought my childhood issues to the surface. It has been a blessing and a nightmare at the same time. I am sure many of you can relate to the nightmare I am talking about. Sorry for the ramble but I hope this helps some of you to see it from the other side. I know many are looking for closure.

    Please consider the fact that the PA person in your life is likely a very troubled person who has learned over the years how to shut down their emotions and build a wall around themselves so that they will not feel the pain again that they suffered as a child. Many of them may not even be aware of this on a conscious level.

    • Dara said,

      November 23, 2013 at 9:53 pm

      Your letter was beautiful!! I only wish it had been written by my soon to be ex husband. I tried to show him the characteristics of a P/A, but he never saw himself in them. And as you described, his childhood was much like yours. Not much shown or expressed love. I agree with you that PA sort of overlaps Covert Narcissism. There are many similarities. The havoc he created in our marriage was overwhelming. I am slowly starting to rebuild my life after 24 years of his crazy making
      behavior. You should be proud of yourself for recognizing and wanting to change. You ROCK!!

      • James said,

        November 24, 2013 at 4:09 am

        Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear your marriage is ending. I am happy that I finally found out what was wrong with me after 47 years. I am ashamed that it took me this long. I have always worried that I was a narcissist. I have taken many personality test and always scored very low for narcissism but very high on codependence. Because of my lack of emotion around my family I always feared narcissism which amounts to a death sentence in my opinion. Dating a narcissist tore me apart piece by piece and forced me to look within to find out how I stayed in a toxic relationship. I can only imagine that a relationship with a PA is probably much like what I have gone through. Like I told my ex wife, “karma is a b*tch and I am getting what is coming to me”. She is a very strong woman who was a great wife. I thought the grass was greener with a younger woman. It’s not. I destroyed my family and although we have discussed dating again I am too ashamed and don’t know if she will like the new me (once I am healed. Good luck to you Dara in your new chaos free life :)

    • Cinthia said,

      November 24, 2013 at 5:13 am

      Your letter is beautiful… I encourage you to help others in your shoes. Many out there need help… and the fact that you are now humble enough to get help and do what it takes is the most amazing thing.
      I wish you the best of luck… and I can only pray my husband will reach where you are now. It is a good possibility that he won’t… but maybe by some miracle he will.
      best of luck! and keep moving forward! :)

    • Anonymous said,

      December 7, 2013 at 12:22 am

      Thanks James- it is refreshing that you are so honest here. I just hope my soon to be ex husband one day looks into himself too. ( he is divorcing me!)
      All the best
      Sarah

    • Anonymous said,

      February 12, 2014 at 2:32 pm

      Hi James,
      I must comment on your courage to realize and admit. You are on the road to recovery. My ex-spouse never admit so there was no way to work out the marriage. I am married to him for 18yrs. Good for you. This is the best gift you ever do for yourself. Changes is for your own good because you will be a happier person. Bitterness and resentment kill slowly.
      Learn to receive love so that you can give. Take ownership of yourself and don’t play the blaming game. Start being responsible.
      I hope you recover so you can be truly happy. A happy man then is able to lead his family, restoration will come when a man resunes his headship.

      Bless you
      JA

      • James said,

        March 2, 2014 at 11:39 pm

        Sorry PA Man. Don’t know why it posted me as “Disgusted”. I’m not ;)

      • James said,

        March 3, 2014 at 12:01 am

        Thanks JA. I am excited and scared of the “new” me. Letting go of control is difficult for someone like me especially after I did so with my ex Borderline Personality Disordered girlfriend of three years. She made my PA behavior look like child’s play in comparison to hers. I got a strong taste of my own medicine, she turned me into the “victim” and almost literally drove me to my grave. I exposed myself and was torched but that is OK. Karma. It was one of the best things that could have happened to me though.

        I have done a lot of work on myself the last 5 months and dealing with my PA / codependency issues. We will see what the future holds but it will be better now that I have begun to build the self worth that I never developed as a child. Better for me and all of those that I love.

  46. Cinthia said,

    November 24, 2013 at 5:10 am

    I have read most of everyone’s stories… and I am horrified. :( I just realized I am married to PA. After seeing a counselor, she identified him as a PA. In some sort of way, I am relieved… I can tell myself now… that I am not crazy. That it is not my fault. I am not perfect, and certainly there are things I could change… but, who is perfect! no one.
    My husband does the wiper thing… he also loves to tailgate. He texts while he drives, then turns around and says how dangerous it is, but yet continues to do it. He never accepts responsibility for anything…. In the 10 years married, I can count with one hand the many times he truly apologized. Everyone thinks he is such a great husband. He is mild manner and super nice to everyone. He will give me the moon, if I am intimate with him, will only last for a couple of days thought… or the moment I say something he doesn’t like, or God forbid I’m on my period, all hell breaks loose. He punishes me. Takes my family away from me and my kids. Makes me feel guilty that I don’t love him enough, and love everyone else more. I am so distant from him, to be intimate is a chore that I put off, cause I just can’t get my self to be intimate with him. Last time I was, I cried the entire time. He doesn’t get it. I should be lucky to have him, he says. He has threaten to leave me many times, and me like an idiot, when off and apologized to him for yelling at him, that I shouldn’t have…. even though I was justified. He enjoys seeing me in pain I think. He enjoys pushing my buttons until I snap. This isn’t love… it can’t be.
    Thank you everyone for your stories. I have a long road ahead of me, but at least I know now what to do. I have gone back to school and going to get my life together. After that… I am done. I can teach my kids now, how to deal with their dad… they are still young. But now I know.. that I will not give in to any angry feelings, because they should have never been there in the first place. I am naturally not an angry person. I can be too compassionate… that I actually feel bad for him. I would like to help him… but, I am also not a young naive person anymore. I have tried for the past 7 years to work things out. They aren’t. He is currently still home. He calls us “roommates” until he decides what he really wants to do… continue counseling, or just end the marriage… nice huh? I have to wait for him to decide for the sake of my kid’s sanity. Cause trying to talk to him, to figure out what we are going to do with the kids, it’s almost impossible. I don’t want a bitter divorce… so I will do what I can to avoid that. For now…all I can say is “knowledge is power” knowing this, knowing he is a PA personality, I can handle things better now.
    Thank you everyone for sharing. There has to be light at the end of the tunnel.

  47. Dee said,

    January 17, 2014 at 4:15 am

    I think I am dealing with a PA man. We have been dating for 6 months and he has never complimented me. He’ll say things like “That hairstyle makes your head look big”, “You have big thighs”, “Those jeans make your butt look big, wear a shirt that covers it.” He is divorced and said he and his ex never argued or fight. When I try to talk to him about something that is bothering me he either shuts down and says nothing or makes a joke out of it. He is a really nice guy, but I’m not so sure this is something I want to deal with after being married to a sociopath. It’s like he does stuff to make me mad. I asked him to say goodnight/good morning – he sets up an automatic txt. REALLY? Is it that hard? I’m confused as to try to work this out or just leave. He is very affectionate from a touchy/feely standpoint and we see each other every day. Thoughts? Suggestions?

    • barb said,

      January 21, 2014 at 12:45 pm

      leave!

    • Anonymous said,

      February 25, 2014 at 4:39 am

      Run!!! Fast!!

      • coralf said,

        February 25, 2014 at 10:22 am

        Yep! Run is good advice.

        PA can be the tip of the iceberg…

    • Jenn said,

      April 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm

      Yes, high tail it outta there….unless you want to live your life totally devoid of emotion & support, it’s a lonely existence with a PA!

  48. Anonymous said,

    January 21, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    I second that! Please don’t waste any more time trying to figure out whether or not he is PA. He is. He said, he and is ex never argued, let me just say from years of experience, this is not a good sign. In my case he walked away as well. You’ll end up frustrated when you try to talk to him and he ignores you. The rude comments will only escalate as he tries to push your button so you’ll react. Heed the advice from those who know and have spent far to many years with a PA. You’ll thank us.

  49. Dara said,

    January 21, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    I second that! Please don’t spend anymore time thinking about whether or not he is PA. He is. Just by what you’ve written it is clear he has some “issues”. And believe me you don’t want to look back in five or ten years and wish you would have gotten out when you questioned the behavior at the six month mark. The rude comments will only escalate, and in addition to that he may say that you are “too sensitive” or “over reacting”, both of which my husband said to me and made me question myself. PA’s don’t argue, they don’t get mad, and the more you fight it the more you’re gonna look like the loon. Google Passive Aggressive behavior. Read all you can. Reread the history of comments from this website. Make an educated decision before you spend anymore time with this man.

  50. PA_man said,

    February 28, 2014 at 7:40 am

    I’m PA man. I want to change. I’ve tried many times but wasn’t so successful. Yesterday we had long talk with my wife again and we decided to start new life once more. Start to change…hope it will work.
    Sometimes I hate myself. I really dont want to make someone feel bad. The main problem is fear and lazyness. First you are lazy to do things you have to…and then you lie because you are afraid of being critisized and have scnadal. but at the end it brings to even more problems.

    • Disgusted said,

      March 2, 2014 at 11:34 pm

      Hi PA Man,
      Awareness is half the battle. I have been in therapy for PA and more specifically Codependency. There is a great book by Pia Melody called “Facing Love Addiction”. You are likely love avoidant and fear abandonment and intimacy. My intimacy fears were subconscious. This book will explain the roots of love avoidants/love addicts and the dance they play in relationships. Basically I have learned that most of my issues stem from my mother treating me like an adult when I was a child. I’m told it is a type of emotional incest. My father was very controlling and self absorbed and my mom would use me as a fill in husband to fulfill her emotional needs (nothing sexual!). Anyway, as an adult when intimacy kicks in my PA behavior helps me to avoid my fear of engulfment (avoid intimacy). It’s crazy and stems 100% from coping mechanisms I learned as a child. BTW, I was a love addict in my last relationship with my Borderline Personality Disordered ex girlfriend that broke my heart which lead to me hitting rock bottom and forcing me to find myself. Love Addiction can stem from having a controlling absent parent. Also, love avoidants can cycle to love addiction with other relationships (friends, coworkers, etc.). These relationships often evolve due to the fear of sharing to much with the ones we love (out of fear of engulfment). It is crazy!!! Sorry for the ramble.

      James

  51. Dara said,

    March 3, 2014 at 12:07 am

    Although it didn’t work in my case, as my husband never recognized his PA behavior, one thing I said to him over and over again was, please think about what you are going to say before you say it. It’s too late for me, but you can do it if you want to change the pattern. Mull it over in your brain before you spew out something hurtful. If you really don’t want to make someone feel bad, you have to make a conscience decision to change. Screw fear and laziness. If you want your relationship to work, try harder. Read all you can on the subject. There are books out there that will assist you with “normal-er” communication skills. Don’t sit around and feel sorry for yourself and regret what may have been. If she sees that you are working on it as a willing participant, it can work. If you continue to bury your head in the sand, for her sanity’s sake she will walk/run away first chance she gets. You can do this…. Really!!

    • PA_man said,

      March 3, 2014 at 9:00 am

      Dara thank you for support. It really helps and motivates me.

  52. Anonymous said,

    March 9, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    Not too harsh??


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